Clay Trader Podcast

STR 254: Starting Small and Building From There

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Via Clay Trader

I’m pretty sure there is no one better prepared to become a trader than those who have military experience. In this day and age where people too easily get their feelings hurt, it’s nice to be able to be blunt with someone and have them simply say, “thanks”. If you are newer to the markets and looking at what it takes to actually be a good “learner”, then look no further. My guest, Chad (‘iamavol’ in chatroom) has a military background and this has served him well so far. He’s not trading with any huge amounts of money, but he’s doing things the right way. He is starting small and then building from that point by focusing on good habits and scaling. Chad’s certainly done some boneheaded mistakes as he’ll discuss, and thanks to his openness, there are some great learning opportunities for us all.

Transcript

Clay: This is a Stock Trading Reality podcast, episode 254.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality podcast where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by every day normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. And this is your host, apparently his sister is an amazing tour guide, ClayTrader.
Clay: A little context, Sarah, my wife and I a couple months ago, went out to San Francisco, San Jose to probably be more specific Silicon Valley, there we go, to visit my sister and then my brother-in-law and my nephew, shout out Stetson, who loves donuts like I do. So it was a great time. We both left with diabetes, it was fantastic. We ate all kinds of donuts, but my wife and I, we had to think about nothing. My sister had things planned out for us the whole time. The Golden Gate Bridge, we saw … I mean, we had more options than what we could actually do. So do you want to, would you guys want to do this? Would you like to see that? What do you want … And I mean we saw all kinds of stuff and it was all scripted out.
Clay: It was fantastic and it was a skill that I was not aware of my sister had the ability to do, but she made a great tour guide and a great … I guess that’s kind of like event planning, but I guess if you’re ever going out to San Jose, maybe she can start like a side hustle and start giving tours. Probably not. She’s probably like, Clay, why are you saying any of this? But it’s fun to brainstorm. But yeah, my sister, she’s got skills when it comes to the tour guide department because she did a fantastic job of showing us around Silicon Valley and San Francisco, San Jose, all those different areas. The one thing that we couldn’t quite fit in, I wanted to see Stanford and Palo Alto, but hopefully we’ll get back out there again and I can see that. But yes, my sister, she makes a really solid tour guide for sure.
Clay: As for our guest, we are talking with a very active member in the community. And just before I forget, because I don’t think it comes up in the podcast, I am a [inaudible 00:02:10]. That is his screen name and his avatar is him in a Star Wars storm trooper uniform, which we talk more about towards the end, which is an awesome, awesome cause and I didn’t realize that that’s what he did, but learning about that, yeah it was great stuff. But that is who we were talking to. So if you are an active member in the chat room then I’m sure you’ve come across him and talked with him because he’s in there quite a bit. He’s one of those members that, yeah he’s great in there. He’s still early on in his learning phase, but he is using real money and he’s just slowly going about it and it hasn’t been perfect.
Clay: And what I enjoyed was he’s not trying to sit here and proclaim that it’s been perfect. He’s shared some of the big mistakes he’s made and how he has learned from them and what he’s taken away from them. But yeah, he’s doing things the right way, hard to do things the perfect way, but he’s trying his best and he’s going about it. He’s realizing his mistakes and he’s one of these guys, which I bring up in the interview where … He’s got a military background so you can really just shoot straight with the guy, kind of hit him between the eyes, be very blunt with them.
Clay: He’s like, “Hey, thanks.” I like that because I’m never trying to offend somebody, I’m never trying to disparage anybody. I’m just, hey, you know what, let’s be efficient, X, Y, Z, and then do A, B, C, boom, let’s go. And sometimes that hurts people’s feelings, but like I said, in Chad’s case, he appreciates that. And we have some good conversations about kind of just more so the attitude of learning and the way you really should try to go about all this. So without further ado, let’s hear about Chad and his journey. Chad, welcome to the show.
Chad: Thanks clay. It really is an honor and a privilege to be here with you today.
Clay: All right, well first off you need to tell the story that you told me in email because that’s just a classic story about, I’ll just let you pick it up from there, but a little context. I’m an Ohio state graduate, so therefore I am a big Ohio state fan of mainly football but in general. And Chad knew this so he shared, it was one of those situations where like, all right Chad, don’t tell me anymore, but because you told me the story, you’re going to have to at least tell it on the podcast because it’s pretty intense. So Chad, I’ll let you take it from there.
Chad: Thanks clay. Let me just give a little back story to that. So as I was looking for someone to learn how to trade, I’d looked at several folks and I came across you, really liked the way that you taught it. It reminded me a lot of how we did things in the army. It’s kind of, I’m going to tell you what I’m going to teach you. I’m going to teach you, I’m going to tell you what I taught you. And one thing kind of stood out to me in the background and I saw, it was on your safe, the Ohio state helmet. And like you said, I’ve got a love hate relationship with Ohio state. So my first job in the army, after I was commissioned, I was a detachment commander for an area dental laboratory and that’s where they go in and they make crowns and bridges and stuff like that for service members, all for services.
Chad: Well the brigade commander was a guy named Colonel Larson and he was an Ohio state graduate, I think, dental school as well was his undergrad. And I was a second lieutenant at the time, so there’s obviously that military respect there except for in the fall for football season. That’s when Tennessee played Ohio state. And then it really got kind of ugly. So after a couple of years with him, the laboratory closed, moved to Fort Gordon and we both stayed at Fort Sam. And I had to go in and have a crown put on and I said, “Hey Colonel Larson,” I said, “I want you to do me a favor because I know you know the guys that are making it, put a Tennessee T on the outside.” He just kind of laughed at me and said, “Yeah, okay, we’ll see what we can do.” Well when that crown comes in, he shows it to me. It’s got a beautiful Tennessee power T on it.
Chad: So he gets the crown loaded or put in and he goes, “How does it feel?” And I’m like, “Well, you know sir.” I said, “It feels fine, but I think there’s a bar on the inside.” Well him and his dental assistant just started roar and laughing and after a couple of minutes of laughing, I said, “Well what’s so funny?” And he holds up these two mirrors so I can see the inside of my mouth. And there is the Ohio state O on the inside. And again, after about five minutes of laughing, he goes, “Oh, that’s, we’ve had our fun, I’ll ground it off.” And I said, “You absolutely will not do that.” And this was a nice, yeah 1998 is when this was done. And so every day, every day I feel that Ohio state O on the inside of my mouth.
Clay: And you’re a better person for it.
Chad: Well, and that was actually the start of a great friendship. Colonel Larson retired here. He’s an active trader, does well on investments, plays golf, messes around with auctions like I do. And we have been friends to this date. As a matter of fact, you’ll probably remember when Tennessee played Ohio state in the final four here in San Antonio. And man, it was the end of the first half. And I called Colonel Larson and I left just a awful, awful voicemail about how horrible Ohio state was and Tennessee was drilling our eyes out. And I’m sure you can tell everybody how the end result was, Ohio state-
Clay: Let me put it this way, you should not have left that phone message, that’s why there’s two halves to a basketball game.
Chad: That’s exactly right. And I see him probably every other month and he still has not let me live that down.
Clay: That is a … I just, I’m fascinated by the fact that, I guess in the army, in the military you’re probably allowed to do that sort of stuff because I mean, it is what it is. But in the private sector, I feel like you’d probably be sued into the stone age. But that was …
Chad: Yeah, he would have. But I asked for the T and he put it on there, so I … Like I said, he was a great friend and it’s a great reminder of that friendship and I guess part of me is always going to be Ohio state.
Clay: That’s right. And I love it. So, all right, well I just wanted him to share that story with you. And that’s a great story, regardless of if you like sports or anything, but that’s kind of sets the tone. Well, I can’t remember, I guess if you told me that he was in the markets or not, but I suppose it’s still relevant because the person that did this to you does have some history in the market. So there we go. It’s still relevant, so all right. What is that squeaking noise?
Chad: I’m sorry, I had to pull my chair up. I’ll sit still.
Clay: All right. Well, and Nate, you don’t have to edit that out either. We’ll just leave it. So yeah, I’d say try to sit as still as possible because I feel like I’m in a horror movie all of a sudden when I hear that chair just eh, I feel like, I don’t know, Freddy Kruger or somebody is creeping in, but yeah. Okay, your going to work the core muscles and sit nice and still from here on out. But all right, well where did all this officially start from, where did you hear about the markets? What sort of things played out that kind of got you to the point where you made the decision that you wanted to get more active with all this stuff?
Chad: Well, I’ve always been interested in the market and I’ve really, it was clarified pretty quickly when I joined you guys. I’ve always invested, I’ve always invested in either my 401k and my Thrift Savings Plan, my Roth. The stock market’s interest me probably for 20 years. And I was one of those guys that, bought a premium subscription to a service that I’m sure everybody gets emails about. And I’d get these updates. But by the time I got the update that stock would have either already swung up or swung down. And by the time I bought in, it was kind of a losing deal for me. And so I kind of got frustrated with that. And then in 2006 to 2008 the army sent me to Baylor for a couple of master’s degrees. One of them that was an MBA and part of that was a finance course. And this comes to my $480,000 mistake/missed opportunity, whatever you want to call it.
Chad: So we took a company in this finance class and we broke it down. And this was really fundamental analysis, no technical at all. So this was the fall of 97 and we looked at Kirkland’s. At the time was trading at 57 cents a share and based off of all the data, fundamental data that we found, we determined it would be a good buy and I was their brief. And I remember driving into General Surf’s office one day and I called my wife on the phone and I said, “Darla,” I said, “I want to take $10,000 off my credit card.” And she was like, “What for?” I said, “I want to buy Kirkland stock.” Well now she’s Cajun and I won’t say what she said to me but Chad did not buy that and there’s a point to all this. So I didn’t buy that, which would’ve been about 18,000 shares and kind of kept an eye on it for a couple of years or 18 months. And the next time I really looked at it Kirkland was trading at $29 a share.
Chad: So you can do the math. I’ll keep it easy because I’m from Tennessee, it was about $490,000 I would’ve had minus my 10 grand. And of course that’s my $480,000 mistake or missed opportunity. Now we all know that you never bargain your kid’s tuition or your mortgage or credit card money in the stock market. But that got me really interested in how it works.
Clay: Well, thank you first off for bringing that up because that is so true. I mean, I was going to bring up the point, well though, that math equation has two sides. It could have just gone to zero and now you’re 10,000 in credit card debt paying some ridiculous interest rate. But you brought that up on your own. So the moral of that story was not go put stuff on your credit card, it was just how you got interested. So thank you very much for making that clarification. Because I don’t want anybody to walk away like, oh I heard on this podcast that you’re supposed to put, you’re supposed to enter into the market with our credit cards.
Chad: No, absolutely not. But the thing that got to me with that, and I was a young captain at the time, I didn’t have the, and I don’t want to, maybe call it disposable income, but even though I was investing in stuff, I didn’t have the ability to reach out and touch cash to make it work for me. And so to me that was the big lesson pulling out of this. Not that, you missed out on 480,000 or you avoided a $10,000 loss, it was really, you need to manage your money better.
Chad: And so over probably the last decade, I made a few trades here and there and I kind of watched one that you actually had on one of your videos and it’s SNDD and I kind of liked the product that they put out and they were sub-penny stock at the time and like 0.0012 is when I got in and I was able to invest about a grand, not a whole lot, but enough to where it’s made me quite a bit, quite a bit is relative, but I think I’ve pulled about five grand profit out so far and there’s still profit in there. But that, I think that moment right there really made me want to understand the market. And so that’s when I began my search for somebody to teach me, now-
Clay: Let me just ask you a quick-
Chad: Yeah, go ahead.
Clay: I’m curious, how did you determine, how did you, I mean, did SNDD just happen to be a penny stock or were you specifically searching for penny stocks?
Chad: No, it actually happened to be a stock. And I don’t remember where I had read something about the needle destructor but coming out of the healthcare industry, because I was an hospital CIO for years and one of the big problems we had was needle sticks, that stuff interests me. And when I found the product that they offered, I just really kind of started drilling down and they, okay, who is this company RedHawk and what do they have and what’s the history of them? Again, all fundamental stuff, zero technical analysis on this stuff. Right? But I hadn’t linked up with you at the time, so that’s how I found them.
Clay: Okay. All right. So it just happened to be more of a, like you said, it was in your sector, you kind of understood that stuff. But I mean, as I know since you’ve listened all of these past, we’ve had some people that are just like, no, I want to trade penny stocks. So then they start looking specifically for penny stocks, but not quite the case here. I found that interested in how this, “Trade investment,” I guess it was money [inaudible] investment, if you’re still even holding now. But that got you interested to the point where like, all right, now I want to understand more so how this actually all functions and works and all that sort of stuff.
Clay: So it’s, I like how each stage almost, the first one was, all right, well I wish I had access to cash. So I want to get, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming you took more of a, kind of a, you spearheaded maybe personal finances at that point so you could create some cash for yourself. Is that a safe assumption?
Chad: You’re absolutely right.
Clay: And then from there, like you said, because you focused on your personal finances, now you actually had cash and then that’s what you led to SNDD and then because that turned out well, now it took you to that next level of, all right, let’s actually focus more so about how all this works, so that’s an interesting little sequence there. I mean, and it makes perfect sense, but I think the hidden value there is you first need to just have money and the way you actually have money as well, it starts with your personal finances and you’ve got to get those in order, which you did. And that’s what kind of jump-started everything, so.
Chad: Yeah, exactly. And that wasn’t always the case. I mean, I’ve never really gone off and done something really stupid. Of course, I guess $10,000 on a credit card would have been quite stupid. But I was, like I said, I was a captain. And of course, you don’t make a ton of money in the military, they treat you very well. And it’s a very good living. I have five daughters, I have two grand babies now. So, we just had to kind of look at what was important and what was our longterm goals and do I really need a 75 inch TV or can I take that $1,500 and invest it or put it up to trade or pay down debt, whatever.
Clay: I like that. That’s a good mentality. And I can envision some people either driving or working out right now and they’re just, I don’t know, maybe they’re looking at their iWatch, do I really need this iWatch or do I … I think that was a great comment because yeah, a lot of go, “Oh, I just don’t have any money to get started. Oh, I wish I had more money.” Are you sure you don’t have money? Look around, is there anything that maybe you could swap in and out for and create some money for yourself? And I liked that a lot. 75 inch TV, do I really need it that big or could I do something a little less and well, hey, actually you have some money.
Clay: All right, well you made the decision or you decided, you know what? This SNDD is working well, but I want to start to learn more about, I can’t remember exactly what you said. But basically you wanted to start to learn more about the mechanics of all this and the finer tuned details. So pick it back up, your story from that point.
Chad: That’s exactly right. I want to know how things work and I don’t want it to be a guessing game. And so, all right, so anyway. So my next step is I’m going out and I’m starting to look at who can teach me because with my tools or you know, I don’t always buy the most expensive, but I want quality. I don’t mind paying for that. I don’t mind paying for quality. I don’t mind paying for an education. Especially when you’re looking at what is going to bring you in the future. So yeah, I looked out and you kind of do the Google search, teach me how to trade stocks and you see all kinds of stuff. And so you see the guys in the big houses and in the planes and the Lamborghinis and all that, and it’s all just so easy. But I think some of that in my military background play because nothing’s easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it and everybody would be successful, to be successful you’ve got to work.
Chad: And I came across one of your YouTube videos and it was the one that was talking about, “Hey, if you want to learn this, come to your free one hour webinar.” And please don’t take this the wrong way because I love it. It wasn’t gruff, it was kind of to the point. It wasn’t, oh yeah, I get my stuff and you’ll learn in six months, you’ll have an airplane and you’ll have a Lamborghini and yada, yada, yada. It was, it takes work, we will teach you, but you’ve got to put the work in. And then I saw the Ohio state helmet on the safe and I’m like, oh man, is this like karma? All right. And so my first step was getting the inner circle and which is an amazing, it’s an amazing venue. There’s some awesome people out there and now they’re to the point, and I like that.
Chad: And there’s been times that I’ve gotten messages and I was like, man, oh, I did say that was stupid. But they’re always there to teach, Swirls and Dan and Elk and God, just, Joel and all of them. They’re there to help you learn when you try to learn. You don’t come in there, give me the answers, this is what I have.
Clay: That’s a great quote. So as much so I’m cutting you off, they’re there to help you learn when you’re trying to learn. That’s a great thing, I love that because that’s so true. A lot of people, they just want to be told what to do. And when it comes … But that’s not actually wanting to learn. That’s just tell me what to do because I don’t want to learn, I want to be told what to do because I want to put in the least amount of effort necessary, which everybody in the community understands. Sorry, I get it, that sounds like the preferable situation, but that’s not how it actually works. Whereas you, they want to help you learn when you yourself want to learn and I assure you, and I think, would you agree now that you have more knowledge, you can very quickly see who’s looking to learn and who is looking just to be a puppet. Just to be told what to do. I mean is that the more you learn, the more easier that becomes a sport.
Chad: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I see, some stuff pops up every now and then and I like, oh my gosh, I asked that stupid question. You know? And yeah, I-
Clay: And honestly though there’s nothing wrong with asking a stupid question. It’s just how do you take it when you get the feedback? I mean the feedback, sure, it can be a very straight point, straight forward, but it’s not because we were like, you’re stupid, you’re not welcome here. Get out of here. No, it’s just, no, that wasn’t a very good question. Here’s why, here’s what you can do to fix the question. Here are the solutions that really you’re probably should be asking about. And yeah, every now and then we have people that take that way the wrong way. They get their egos hurt or get their feelings hurt and sometimes I immediately get, I want my money back. My feelings were hurt.
Clay: It’s like what, this is the big leagues. Like we’re not here to pet people’s egos here, I mean, this is literally the most cut throat place on earth. This is the financial markets. I mean this is pure brutality at times and, but yeah, people, and that’s what I’ve always liked about you, Chad, was I know I’ve pretty sure dropped the hammer, not the, yeah, maybe the hammer a couple of times on you. But you always were like, “No, I appreciate it. Thank you. Like that’s how I prefer things.” And I’m like, ah, all right, good. I like these types that just take it for what it is.
Chad: Yeah. And let me just clarify and I don’t mean that, you know, I don’t want that to come across that maybe you or these other guys think it’s a stupid question. When I look at what I typed, I’m like, oh man, I can’t believe I asked that. Because I know that may not be the way to answer it, everybody is so … I mean, you guys are kind on here. You are to the point and again, 24 years in the army, that’s what I like. If I said something out of line, please tell me I’m out of line. Let me learn. And I think it’s great.
Clay: But again, because you want to learn. So yes, please let me learn because I want to learn and there’s, I get it as a listener, maybe you think, okay Clay we get it. But there is such a difference there between showing up with a truly wanting to learn attitude and then showing up into the markets with a, yeah, can somebody just tell me what to do and oh, you offer a service, are you going to tell me a buy and then you’re going to tell me exactly when to sell? Yeah, I’ll sign up with that. And it’s like, oh, if only it were that easy.
Chad: If it was, we’d have a bunch of millionaires across the country, right?
Clay: Well, that was the other thing I really liked and I was, you pretty much answered it, but it was a situation where, hey, I see all this fancy marketing and I see what you say, the Lamborghinis and the big houses and it’s sad how many people fall for that, but with your logic, which was first, it was, okay, well if it was that easy, then everybody would just do that and everybody would have all these fancy cars and it just never crosses people’s minds that maybe they’re kind of selling the dream and not actually selling what needs to happen. Which would be hard work, dedication, persistence, all that good stuff. But …
Chad: That’s right.
Clay: So anyways, it is what it is. That was definitely some good talking points because yeah, you got to want to learn. That’s really the best way to put it. I have … You made the comment and then I totally interrupted you and derailed us down these rabbit holes, but … Oh yeah. You said, you started off with the inner circle and then you were in the room and you appreciated the fact of how you were learning because you wanted to learn and that’s when I cut you off. So you joined the inner circle, you’re in there networking and take it up from that point.
Chad: Sure. So I’m in there, I don’t know, maybe a couple of weeks and I was traveling and you and I chatted some and you were like, “Hey, you got to do this.” I’m like, “Yeah, let me wait.” And I remember saying, let me wait till the 15th which is a government payday.
Clay: That’s right.
Chad: Remember that?
Clay: I do remember, I do, yep.
Chad: And I started to go back and look and just seeing some of the results people would post, obviously may or may not be my results, but I didn’t have the ability to go in and start learning. I could see the results people were having and the way that they were, what’s a bowl poll? I don’t know what that is, but they’re talking and I couldn’t understand them. And I finally said, forget it. That’s when I pulled some of those profits out that I had already made. Instead of it just sitting there, let’s take that money that you’ve already made on this stock, on the SNDD and put it to use to learn more. Got the money, signed right up for a CTU and I live in those classes.
Clay: Now you signed up for it and did you put a pause on, or let me ask it this way, were you actively trading when you joined?
Chad: I call it lunch money, but not really. I was doing more on the paper trading side. And so the way that … And this is the way I learn, I went through robotic training and then I would start to kind of look for things like that. Then I would play with some lunch money, the real money.
Clay: But in very small amounts where for listeners either lunch money, pretty much, and correct me again if I’m wrong, but that’s money where if you happen to lose it, it’s not like you’re going to be, “Hey family, time to move under a bridge.” It was money that you could 100% afford to lose. Is that accurate?
Chad: Oh absolutely. I don’t think put up a hundred dollars on any trade for four or five weeks. It was, let me buy just a few shares of this based off of what I think it should do. I’m going to spend 30 bucks here, if I lose it, I take a peanut butter sandwich to work. No big deal. So yeah, small amounts, Clay, very small. And it’s even still to that at this point, like I’m just now starting to learn about the micro mini futures and it’s going to be one contract. Its small dollars until I get a good understanding, because I, and again maybe this is the army training because I do the paper trading and I … You can kind of, I think paper trading is good to learn but it creates some unrealistic expectations because I don’t mind dropping 50 grand on a trade because I know it’s all paper. But if I put $50 on a real trade, I’m either going to be successful or not successful and have more money or less. So it makes it real for me.
Clay: Right. Yeah. Paper trading 101, start and use the amount of money you’ll actually have with real money because, which is ridiculous. The simulators, I don’t know what the default numbers are. I suppose it probably depends on who you’re using, but it could be like $100,000. Yeah, start off with 100,000. Well, are you actually going to have 100,000 when you start with real money? Because if you’re not, then you should definitely adjust it down to whatever you’re going to have. So as a listener out there, paper trading is great. But yeah, big pitfall with paper trading and simulators and demos.
Clay: Just make sure you adjust that number down to what you’re actually going to be using when you go live or else you’re just going to be, to Chad’s point, giving yourself really false expectations because oh wow, yeah, I just made $5,000 today. And well, how big … Well, yeah I got like a 500,000 … Okay, well are you going to have 500,000? No. Well then I’m sorry that $5,000 is completely magical and mystical because it’s not realistic at all. So it doesn’t, it sounds like, were you doing something like that? Were you playing with way more money than what you would actually have started with?
Chad: I got to that point. I did smaller amounts and was successful most of the time or some not, then I thought, well let me see what would happen if I, instead of [inaudible] an option on Apple, I’m going to buy thousand Apple shares. Well I’m not going to do that. And so, I took a step back and you know, I kind of got excited and things were going well. Then I started moving over to the lop-side but with small amounts but then something clicked in my mind, going back to the military is you fight like you train. And if you don’t train realistically you can’t be successful in combat. So a lot of things revolve, my thoughts coming back to the military and how we did things, so that really kind of stood out with me. So then I started, I was able to start scaling that paper trading back down. So it started small, gone unrealistic and came back down. And then I started moving a little bit of my lunch money to the lop-side.
Clay: That’s interesting how, because most people just start off way too unrealistic, but you actually started realistically and then find yourself so good catch on your part to be self aware enough to admit to yourself, oh, I’m probably not being very realistic right now.
Chad: That’s right.
Clay: And then you had to work your way back down there. So that’s, you’re using lunch money. So my question is where does this lunch money number come from? So, and I don’t know if these are the numbers, but let’s just say you’re willing to lose $10 or whatever. Why $10 as opposed to 50, I mean, how did you determine what was an acceptable “Lunch money” amount?
Chad: When I initially funded my … And I guess really for that, for each individual trade … Clay, I don’t know that I have like, it’s a $10 or it’s $50. I think some of that is just, if I’m looking at maybe what the price is or what the option is. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if I have a good answer for that. I just want to be realistic in the money. I don’t want to lose more than a hundred bucks because I could afford that and I will tell you what really kind of funds all of that.
Clay: Okay, so the lunch money number is 100 bucks then, that’s what the true lunch money number is.
Chad: Correct. Yeah, I don’t want to lose any more than a hundred but I really don’t even want to lose that. So I’ll go with some smaller amounts.
Clay: Okay, that makes sense. And the hundred dollars is that just coming from more of a psychological number?
Chad: It is.
Clay: Okay, that makes sense. Then it’s $100 and then you can work from there. If something gets up to 25 then you can very quickly say, well I’m at a quarter of what I’d like to ideally lose overall, so that does make sense then. It’s not necessarily a per trade thing, but you have a macro number of $100 that you don’t want to lose.
Chad: That’s true. But I will tell you, I have jacked that up even on the lop-side where you do things like make the option purchase, get distracted and don’t go back and put a stop in. And I mean we had this discussion I think last week.
Clay: I was going to say, was that you? Oh yeah, you did well with what? CEI? Was that the one you’re doing really well on?
Chad: No, I did good with that and I didn’t put the … I put the stop in but I didn’t move it up. But I mean, I’ll go to Duluth. There’s a couple that are really looking at the charts and I really think probably the Duluth is the biggest one. I looked at the charts and I thought I understood the technical piece of it and I purchased it and it went completely the opposite direction. And so I didn’t have a stop in place and I wasn’t right there, because I was doing silly things like play in the earnings and didn’t have this, didn’t protect my capital, walked away and come back and then it’s gone. I can’t even get out of the trade because there’s no ask for it.
Clay: Okay.
Chad: Bid for it.
Clay: Well all right, now you’re playing earnings. So does that mean you’ve gone up to the advanced options classes?
Chad: I have.
Clay: Okay. All right. So do you know that there’s, because without the advanced options, if you’re just going long options in earnings, that’s just flat out gambling because you, with the way options work and applied volatility and all that sort of stuff, that’s very difficult to actually make money. But if you, I would, I was just, I’m assuming you … And I’m trying to think back because this was on a GameStop, right? Where you were having the issues.
Chad: So there was, so GameStop is not too bad. I played GameStop on both sides.
Clay: So you had an advanced strategy set up on that one then, right?
Chad: I did.
Clay: Okay.
Chad: But like for, so there was two, they’re really kind of, they’ve really, really kind of hammer in. It was Palo Alto and Duluth. And Palo Alto, I’m very familiar with the company. Everything looked really good. The chart looked good. I played the call, didn’t really pay attention to it the next day like I should have, I don’t know what happened. And oh by the way they announced they were selling off something and instead of going up it just plummeted and that money’s gone.
Clay: Now, I … That just blows my … What do you mean you weren’t paying attention to it the next day? What does that mean? Like you forgot you put on the position or something came up at work or I guess walk me through that because that’s catching me as, what do you mean you weren’t paying attention to it?
Chad: So when I made the call and again I don’t know what distract me or because I was at work and I didn’t put the stop in and then the next day we had meetings that morning, by the time I got back to it, and this is all on me, this is blaming nobody. I didn’t complete my trade plan when I made the purchase. And then by the time I looked at it again, it’s down a couple hundred bucks and I’m like crap, mistake. I call it attention to detail. You make the purchase, if I’d have put the stops in place, maybe I would have lost 10, 15%. Instead, I pretty much lost the entire premium.
Clay: Okay. So I’m noticing a trend, you seem to be not putting in stops quite a bit or you just told me about this ones where you haven’t put in a stop are you normally put in stops? Because right now I have the impression that you’re like never putting in any stops.
Chad: No, I do. And I would say up until this happened it was, I would let the emotions get me. Okay. Well I’ve lost 50 bucks, but if I hang on I can get some of that back. After these two lessons I have stops on everything in my portfolio right now.
Clay: Good. All right, good, good. I’m very happy to hear that. That was going to be a question to come quickly here was, all right, so what is the current stop situation, but. So you just decided to share a couple of your big horror stories right up the get go to kind of set the-
Chad: Oh, absolutely.
Clay: Okay. And what, where are you in the courses themselves? It sounds like you’ve been through RVR and all that sort of stuff.
Chad: I have, I have just started mastering level two. I kind of avoided that. Now I want to kind of, after watching some of the webinars, you go through that at the very beginning. I don’t understand that enough and I want to learn level two.
Clay: Okay, nice.
Chad: And I just started SLAB.
Clay: Oh nice. Nice. When did you get that?
Chad: Last week.
Clay: Oh cool. Did you, wait, you talked … Yes, yes you did. You sent me an email about that, I do remember that now.
Chad: I did.
Clay: Now what would you say, actually let me take a step back. Are you doing mainly options?
Chad: Right now? Yes. Others? There’s some things like eventually I’ll want to … There’s a few stocks that I want to purchase, oh I’m sorry, I want to invest in and keep in my portfolio. But right now it’s primarily options. I’m going to trade my first micro mini today and then every now and then if I see an alert pop up or if I can get downstairs, when an alert pops up and it’s pre-market, I might try to spend 50 bucks or less on something and see if I can ride it for a little bit and then scalp the profits from that.
Clay: Okay. So my main question right now is where did, how did you land on options as of now, it sounds like that’s been the bulk majority of your trading. So what made you determine that options, you wanted to focus on that?
Chad: Well, to be honest it was one of your videos talking about, because I kind of like the possibility of penny stocks, but I see that it’s got to make a big swing to make money. And then you’ve talked about options, how you can control a port, a hundred shares with a contract, a portion of that for a much smaller amount and you can still see the profit swings. That seemed an easy, not easy, that’s not the right word. A less expensive way to get into some of these bigger shares, these bigger companies that I know that right now I couldn’t really afford to get into.
Clay: So it was mainly just a matter of I have a smaller amount of money that I want to start with, what’s available out there to traders such as myself that aren’t showing up with $25,000 and all that. And to listeners, I just bring up 25,000, that’s the minimum you have to have to avoid the pattern day trading rule. So it sounds like it was mainly just a function of you wanting to start with something smaller.
Chad: Correct.
Clay: Okay. And had you learned about options at all before or is …
Chad: Nope.
Clay: Okay, so this is, you heard about options from the ClayTrader University.
Chad: That’s correct.
Clay: Then you mentioned, trading some micro futures here. So where did micro futures kind of start to creep into all of this?
Chad: Swirls.
Clay: More DLs.
Chad: Yeah. So Swirls has been one of the folks on there that’s really kind of worked with me and we’ve talked a lot. And then he mentioned, because you hear about futures and I kind of looked at it and like well I really just can’t afford or really want to get into it that much. And he brought up, “Hey, have you looked at minis and micro minis?” And I remember, maybe it was about three weeks ago. He said, “Vol, your assignment is learn about micro minis today.” Yes sir. Three bags full. And so I went out and I started reading about it and trying to learn about those and more in depth other than what they, just what they were.
Clay: And where did you learn about them from? Did you take the class that I offer?
Chad: No, I haven’t. Really all it is has been reading and what they put out on the IC, I haven’t got to the futures part yet.
Clay: Okay. Well there’s a free futures course that I offer on YouTube. Are you even aware of that?
Chad: No, that I didn’t know about?
Clay: You didn’t know about my free futures course on YouTube?
Chad: No, but I’m going to be looking it up right now.
Clay: All right, well there you go. You have, I mean, I guess if you’re, yeah it my still be worth going through, but yeah, just type like futures trading ClayTrader on YouTube, it should pop up. But yeah, there is that course, but I don’t know. It might be worth it. It’s only, it’s four videos, couple hours long. So I mean, but if you’re ready to get going on it right now, I don’t know. I’ll leave that up to you if you want to go through it or not, but I’m not quite sure if it would or if it wouldn’t [inaudible] given that you’re almost ready to give it a try.
Chad: Well, I don’t think you can ever learn too much.
Clay: Well there you go, with that philosophy then I’d say you might as well go through it. The risk there is two hours of your time, so.
Chad: Yeah, I think that’s a fair trade off Clay.
Clay: There you go. Well then I’ll “See you in the futures class.”
Chad: Yes sir.
Clay: Now, I guess big picture wise and of course, well yeah I want to learn how to do this consistently. I get that but big picture wise what are some of your bigger goals and such that you have where you’d like to kind of, to see all this go?
Chad: Well, I would love to say that I could be like Dan, all kidding aside. I’m kind of semi-retired right now, so retired from the military, doing some work at our churches as their business manager. I enjoy this. I mean, I love to see the patterns. I love the potential opportunity. I would like to do this, I don’t want to say full-time, but at least half of my time I want to be in the markets. I want to teach my kids how to do this, because this is a great way, I think if you put the time and you get the education and you’re smart with what you do, I think the markets will offer a lot for anybody.
Clay: I fully agree. It’s a skill and this skill takes a lot of time, like you said, and effort and dedication to develop. But I mean, and have you seen, Dan, for example, is not just randomly guessing. He’s not just randomly doing things. Any successful trader is not just randomly doing things. And I’m not talking about only within the claytrader.com world. I’m talking about any trader out there. There’s a reason why you’ve heard of a professional trader before, compare it to a professional slot machine player for example. I use that in my webinar presentation because truly there’s nothing you can do with a slot machine, that is pure gambling because there is no way you can manage the risk. There’s no way you can do anything. There’s no way you can leverage anything in your favor with the slot machine. That’s just pure gambling.
Chad: That’s right.
Clay: And so that’s why you’ve never heard of professional slot machine player, but you have heard of professional traders because yeah, there are ways you can manage risk and all that good stuff, which like I said, goes back to the whole skill thing. And I’d love to teach my kids about it too, at some point if they listen, I don’t know, who knows? I don’t want to do it dad, I have no idea how that’ll go. But I got a little while to figure that out.
Clay: So if I were sitting next to you and I was looking at your chart, I mean, what sort of things would I see? I mean, do you have any sort of favorite indicators, I guess walk me through unless there’s what you’re using on from the technical perspective.
Chad: All right, so the Bollinger bands, those were there on my chart. I’ve got the 50, the 200, the non, I just learned what the VWAP was about a week and a half ago after seeing it on IC. So I’ve got that on my charts now. Still really trying to understand. I kind of think I do, but learn more about the CCI and the RSR and how those play into the movement of a stock. Learn a little bit more about divergence, I try to pick that out, but I’m not sure that I’m really good at that yet. I think that’s going to take more practice. And then I’m thinking I’ve got my volume, that’s really about it.
Clay: So you, pretty for the most part. Your chart isn’t littered with this, that and the other. And then you have on all those even more things. It sounds like it’s a pretty straight forward approach.
Chad: It is. I mean, if there’s something I’m really kind of diving into, like I’m really looking at Boeing. You’ll see some trend lines and occasionally I’ll throw the Fibonacci chart up but I’ll take that right off because it’s just too cluttered for me. I’ll look at it but I don’t leave there.
Clay: Yeah, I’m with you. Any of those additional tools every now and then that I’ll use, I’ll leave them there temporarily. But I fully agree that it does tend to get cluttered way too soon. And then before you know it, I have the paralysis by analysis and it’s all right, delete, delete, delete. There we go. I can actually see what’s going on. Not that there’s anything wrong. Some people, I mean if you can deal with eight million indicators, hey, that’s the beautiful thing about the market, there’s plenty of ways to trade. But for me and what sounds like Chad, ah, I don’t know. It can get a little bit too cluttered too quickly. And I mean, that’s just where you kind of got a … There’s always a give and take amongst everything and it is what it is. Now you-
Chad: I always say I’m from Tennessee, I’m not real smart, don’t let the Baylor degrees fool you. I like it simple.
Clay: Yeah. I’m not smart either and I’m all about the kiss, keep it simple, stupid. What would you say though, your actual … Is that drink good?
Chad: Did you hear that? I’m sorry, I didn’t want to cough because I’ve been coughing today. I’m sorry.
Clay: It’s fine, I like you enough. Take it as a compliment, I like you enough to just give you a little grief of that. But on your box, if you want, you can always hit the mute button and then that way you can sip away and nobody will hear anything. So, but that’s fine. Do you see that on the box there?
Chad: Yep.
Clay: There you go.
Chad: I got it.
Clay: So sip away. But what would you say is your, I don’t know, strategy, because I get it, you’re still fine tuning thing. But as of now, what exactly are you looking for? So what would you need to see that would get you to the point of saying, all right, I’m willing to put some real money into this trade. Is it a certain setup? Are there certain indicators have to line up a certain way? So again, what takes you to the point? What do you need to see that makes you decide that it’s worth putting real money in?
Chad: I don’t know that I have anything specific. I mean, if there’s something, if there’s a big gap up or a big gap down on something that really kind of piques my interest because some of the things that you all have said, that’s maybe some of the, I won’t call them newbies, but newbies chasing, which I was one of those. So I’m looking at something that may want to kind of reset back to back the level. The VWAP line, I’m just amazed at how things are following that, for the most part. I mean you’ve got ebbs and flows in that, but for the most part things are following that VWAP and that’s really kind of what I’ve been focused on probably the last week is how close things are trading to that VWAP line.
Clay: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy isn’t it? How the market, I mean, whether or not it’s a self fulfilling prophecy or really whatever you want to call it, the market does really seem to tend to honor that line. And like I said, you can get into all the theory you want about why it acts the way it does and all that stuff. But yeah, sometimes you don’t need to know if stuff is true. You just need to know if enough people believe for it to be true and then you can just let that work. Now I did want to, I like to talk about this every now and then, but we know that you’ve had some losses, so thank you very much for disclosing that and telling us about those losses. So from a mental standpoint, how are you doing with those losses? Is that severely affecting you or are you doing a pretty good job, you think of dealing with those?
Chad: Well, so you’d have to define severely affecting me. Does it make me down on myself or that I’m a loser at this, it doesn’t. Those things make me really take a look at what I did. So going back to, like Duluth and GameStop or whatever, I made that mistake. I didn’t follow it, I know better. I’m usually a very detailed person and when I don’t do something I know that I should do that’s really what has more of the impact on me. Not so much that it goes up or down, but I could have prevented that. You’ve got to accept, I would think if you’re in the market, you’ve got to accept, you’re going to have bad days, you’re going to have good days. That just comes with the turf. Kind of like the, a quarterback mentality. You’re going to throw an interception, but you got to forget it. But what did I do to throw that interception?
Chad: So that’s really what it does for me and same with big gains. And I’ve had a few, hey, what did I do right? What do I need to learn from that? What could I do better? All right, what did I do wrong and how do I prevent that mistake from happening again that I have control over?
Clay: That’s a good point because a lot of times people are, they’re like, yeah I had a good day because it was green. I’m like, yeah but was it green because you were just breaking a bunch of rules and you happen to get lucky and it was green or was it green and you followed all your rules? Same as a lot of people … Too many people are like, oh it was a bad day because I lost money. I don’t know, was it a bad day or did you just honor rules and things just didn’t quite work out? But way too many people and I mean I’ve fallen into this trap plenty of times. They think that just because a day was green that it was actually good. It’s like, well, what were the habits that generated those results? Because it’s the habits over the long haul that’ll are really going to work themselves out. I mean, would you agree with that as a … The words good and bad can be actually kind of deceiving within the world of trading.
Chad: Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s the habits that you make, because really bottom line is you got just as good a chance when you’re gambling, flipping a quarter and calling heads or tails. But when you see those patterns and when you understand what you’re looking at, then you can make the educated decision versus a non-educated guess.
Clay: And that’s what it’s all about. Just you got to be able to ensure that you’re not just throwing a dart. I mean, that’s really, at the end of the day, you got to make sure that you’re not throwing that dark and that’ll take you very far. But it is certainly a slippery slope. Chad and myself, we’re not sitting here saying that it’s an easy skill to master, easy to actually understand when something is right or when something’s wrong. But the more you learn, the more clear it will become. Oh yeah, that was definitely sure I’m green on the day, but if I keep conducting my behavior in that sense it’s going to spin out of control pretty quick and give me results that I don’t want to see. And that’s really what you’re trying to avoid is just to be a self-aware as possible and really as brutally honest with yourself as possible. I mean, would you … To you, it probably doesn’t affect you much coming from the military, but you really do have to be just harshly, brutal and self-aware in this business, don’t you?
Chad: I am seeing that, it’s like you’ve got … In CT, you have to be robotic. You can’t get down on yourself when you have a bad day. You can’t puff your chest out when you have a good day, read, look at, understand, make your decision and move on.
Clay: That’s very well said. I mean, just take it for what it is and then just, you can’t get too hung up on things, but you got to be … It’s a very fine line, but at the end of the day, that line is definitely made out of just, you got to be self aware. You got to, there’s nothing wrong with having the temptation to do something stupid, but when you’re self aware, at least you can identify the desire to do something stupid and then therefore avoid the desire because you’ve identified it in the first place. But yeah, it’s been fun watching you and it’s going to continue to be fun I would say. And-
Chad: I hope so.
Clay: I’m curious to see how this, the micros go for you. I think they’re going to help out quite a bit. I think they’re a great way to, if anything, fine tune the habits and make sure that you’re seeing the chart vision, the way you should be seeing it. But did you have anything else you wanted to add before I move on the time machine?
Chad: No, I would just say don’t expect anything spectacular because it is one contract, I’m learning with one.
Clay: No, and well I don’t define spectacular as in monitor results. I want to see about these habits. So even if you’re like, yeah I’ve built my account from such and such to such and such and it’s like 10 to a hundred bucks, it’s like, well, that’s fine. However, the habits and if the habits are good, that’s what the name of the game is.
Chad: Yes sir.
Clay: But yes, I’m not, spectacular being defined as habits not being defined as some sort of quantity such as like we’ve seen in the chat room for some of these people, but they’ve been at it a long time now and it’s always good to know what is possible to those that just keep the ax to the grindstone. Now speaking of, well not axes, but time machines, if I were to give you a time machine and you could go back to the start, I mean, I feel like you kind of had … I’ll let you define when you would want to go back to as far as the time machine, so it doesn’t necessarily have to be to the very, very, very start, but some part, earlier in your journey and you had to give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
Chad: It would be back to when I was, probably about 2006 when I was starting the Baylor program and it’s really not so much about the stock market. It’s about the personal finance piece of it to have the … Have the money, manage your finances a little bit better, not bad, but better to where when those opportunities present themselves, much like Kirkland’s did, that you have the ability to take those opportunities.
Clay: I like that. In fact this doesn’t mean anything to you because the episode hasn’t aired yet, but we’ve had a couple of people just mainly focus on the personal finance aspect of things and just really deciding and wanting to, you know what? Let me nail down this first because when you nail down those personal finances, it’s amazing how much money just starts popping up and showing up and that’s what you actually need to trade is you need some capital. So I like that answer quite a bit.
Clay: So let’s move into the fun questions here and I’m curious. Well, I think I might know. I think I might know the answer to this based on some spec, but just based on some things I’ve seen, but we’ll see how good of a guesser I am. What is your favorite movie?
Chad: Star Wars.
Clay: All right, I was right then. Now, from the pictures, it sounds like you are a big Star Wars guys as in you have like a Star Wars, or not a Star Wars, a storm trooper get up like you … Do you go to like conventions and stuff?
Chad: I do, I’m a member of the 501st and some folks may know who that is and some may not, but it is a worldwide Star Wars costume organization. And our motto is bad guys doing good. We go to children’s hospitals. We do, I think my first event because I’m a storm trooper and a Darth Vader, we just do charity work and of course it’s all free. We buy our own costumes. Putting that Darth Vader costume together costs me more than my first car did and Darla still doesn’t know the final amount, but it was an excessive about eight grand putting that together. And-
Clay: It’s legit. I’ve seen the pictures. I mean, I would like to hire you to come up here and knock on the door with that because my kids are totally in the, we finally let them watch the one from the 70s so all they talk about is Star Wars.
Chad: That’s the best.
Clay: In fact today I was told by my daughter what her favorite Princess Leia outfit was. So that’s just the random things that the kids are telling me now. But, yeah.
Chad: And Clay, it’s really cool. I mean like a couple of weeks ago, there’s a, if you don’t mind me telling this real quick.
Clay: Sure.
Chad: There’s a little boy in my daughter’s neighborhood like right across the street and he’s on his third diagnosis of cancer. He’s lost a leg and he’s going back in for his third round of chemo. And his mom knew that I did this, of course the little boy didn’t. And she said, “Hey, you can’t really come to the hospital unless you clear it through the facilities, but can swing by the house?” So Darla went and picked up a couple of pizzas and I went over to Alice and got dressed up in my storm trooper costume and went over to his house, knocked on his door. Of course, he answered and I got to deliver him a couple of pizzas and ducked him to the 501st as an honorary member, gave him patches and challenge coins and that … I’m glad we have the mask on, and I’m thinking I’m a pretty tough guy, but brother you get crying when you see things like that.
Clay: No, I don’t … I was just thinking that’s got to be better, I don’t think a winning … There is no amount you can make in a trade that would ever top that sort of feeling I want to say.
Chad: Absolutely not.
Clay: Yeah. I mean, that stuff is the truly priceless stuff that … All I’ll say is this, if you ever find yourself in the West Michigan area and you know about it ahead of time, just get ahold of me because I want you to deliver something, even just the storm trooper, that would be fantastic. So just let me know if you’re ever in the area.
Chad: I absolutely will.
Clay: Pack up the outfit because my kid’s mind would be, oh man. Well my littlest would probably, my two littlest would probably go screaming in terror, but that’s okay. It would be the two oldest ones that would think it’s the greatest thing ever. We would, I’d be, we could probably stage it too where I’d like knock you out or something. That way all my kids think I’m the greatest thing ever because I just took out Darth Vader, but I’m getting way ahead of myself in terms of stripping this out, but good. I figured, I would assume though that you’re pretty excited. Are you going to be seeing, what is that, it’s like comes out in four days as of the recording of this?
Chad: It does and it’s been kind of funny the last four years, our anniversary is December 21st and this is our 30 year anniversary and so we’re kind of going out of town, but we’ve got it set on our schedule this weekend to go see the movie. So every anniversary for the last four or five years, it’s been, Star Wars has been worked in there somehow and of course, and Darla is just as huge of a fan as I am.
Clay: Okay. Does she do any, is she take part of this? Does she dress up as anything?
Chad: No, I tried to get her to put the Princess Leia costume on, but she won’t do it. She just has fun with me.
Clay: Nice, that’s good stuff. I think my wife is slowly learning more and more about it because now she sees how much the kids are … Yeah. It’s just, it’s funny how things work out, but it’s crazy. Like Star Wars is priceless because I remember watching it with my parents and now it’s just with my kids and I guess that just reveals my age a little bit too. But anyways, that definitely gets up. What about food-wise down in Tennessee, what do you like to eat?
Chad: Well now, so I’m from Tennessee. I live in Texas. I retired in San Antonio.
Clay: Oh, okay. I did know that, now that you bring that up, I knew. All right, so what do you like to eat down in Texas then?
Chad: Well, of course they’ve got great barbecue here. I don’t think it’s as good as Memphis barbecue, but breakfast tacos, I love breakfast taco, bacon, egg and cheese tacos with some pretty hot salsa on it. That’s just a great way to start the day out.
Clay: I’m pretty sure that’s the first time anybody has given that answer. But to each their own, I can get behind that. Especially with the hotter sauce on it. That sounds good to me. And then finally, last question, three words. And these three words need to be what you would associate with a successful trader. So what would those three words be?
Chad: Consistent, disciplined and satisfied. Satisfied with their decision.
Clay: I think that-
Chad: No one knew what I did, I stay consistent and I’ve lived my plan, I’ve worked my plan, good or bad. I’ve worked my plan.
Clay: And that’s … You’ve worked your plan, good or bad. And really there is no good or bad as long as you’ve worked your plan, because something could be a loss “Bad,” but you know what? You worked your plan, so there’s going to be at some point, plenty of good that will come from it. And then that’s where the risk [inaudible] starts to factor in and the numbers take care of themselves. But that is definitely, I like the way you put that, work your plan. Well Chad, this was a great time and we will definitely have to have you back at some further point in the future, I mean are you up for coming back at some point?
Chad: Absolutely. This has been a blast.
Clay: And I wanted to thank you because I reached out to you and said, “Hey, would you like to be a guest?” And you gave me no pushback. You didn’t give me the, well, I don’t have a good … No, you were just like sure. I was like, great. And you make my life very easy when people just accept the invite right off the get go. And especially when I was asking you, we are running a little bit short on the buffer, so I appreciate you stepping up and saying, “Yeah, I’ll help to build up the buffer and keep this thing going.” So thank you for doing that.
Chad: And if I could just say this, Clay, I don’t, people that are part of CTU and they’ve watched your videos and YouTube stuff. I personally appreciate the work that you put into this because that’s a lot of time, not just preparing the videos but the editing, thanks to Nate for all that, but the time that you’ve put in to make us better traders, I very much appreciate that.
Clay: Well, you’re welcome and I appreciate that feedback because every now and then it’s like, wow, this is kind of a lot of work and wow, this is, but that’s the stuff that, it just keeps the motivation tank filled. So I appreciate that and you are welcome and I appreciate you just working hard. I mean, that’s really all you can ask is if you had give somebody something, just do it. Just work hard, so.
Chad: Hey, and if you’re ever down in San Antonio, come during basketball season and I’ll take you to a Spurs game.
Clay: Hey, that’s, I actually used to be a really big Spurs fan when they had Tim Dunkin, but I’ve kind of left ever since he’s retired, but I was always a big Tim Dunkin fan. But I will definitely take you up on that offer. I’m always looking for a good time and a local city tour guides, but San Antonio, got it. Well Chad, thank you very much for hanging out and I appreciate you taking some time out of your day.
Chad: Yes sir. Thank you very much Clay.
Clay: And we’ll be in touch for sure. Now for you listeners out there before we go final few things. First off, if you are listening on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, then please subscribe. So you know whenever new content is released and especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating that really helps us out and it goes a long way and especially a written review, that really helps out and we would really appreciate it.
Clay: If you are at claytrader.com and listening to this on the show notes page, then in the bottom right hand corner, there’s a live chat box. So if you click on that, just let us questions, comments, feedback, suggestions, anything. We always love to hear from people that discover us or just longtime listeners of the show. So just let us know and we, like I said, we love to hear from people. But again, I appreciate all of you as listeners. I appreciate you Chad for taking some time out of your day and we will see you all back next week.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit claytrader.com.

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