Clay Trader Podcast
STR 244: An Australian Hustler Making His Way
Let’s go to Australia once again and hear from a community member who sets a great example of what it takes to be a trader. It may not be the prettiest thing, but it’s a real life look into the bumps and grinds that us traders must endure to make it happen. My guest, Dan, is an open book and shares his journey of trading the market and what he has planned for the future. I found his overall attitude and perspective greatly motivating… and to be frank, he says a lot of stuff that many people need to hear! While it might rub some people the wrong way, it’s the truth and how things need to be (assuming you want to find and take hold of success). Let’s get to it!
Clay: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, episode 244.
Announcer: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday, normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. And this is your host, the most common question he gets is the most backwards to answer, ClayTrader.
Clay: What is this question? Well, before I reveal that, understand upfront that people that are asking it maybe are wondering right now, listening, as somebody that’s new, you’re not stupid, but it is a perfect example of how what is logical in our mind, what we believe makes sense as far as the market is concerned as being consistently profitable is concerned isn’t always… they don’t match up perfectly. And in this situation, the question being, “Hey, Clay, what’s the best platform? What’s the best broker? What’s the best app to use?” And in all actuality, this is one of the last things you should be focused on.
How so? Well, look at it like this. Once you gain the proper knowledge, once you gain the proper understanding, and once you have those things, you can begin to build a strategy, a strategy based around your risk tolerance, around your schedule, and around your goals and whatever you’re trying to accomplish. And as an FYI, I want to make money. Yes, I realize we all want to make money, but there’s a little bit more to a goal, there’s a little bit more to fine-tuning that needs to be done other than the goal of, “I want to make money.”
But after you fine-tune, created a strategy, and created something that fits into what you want to do, well then what? Well, now I actually need a tool to implement this strategy. I know what I want to do, I know what I need to be able to do in order to make this a reality, so therefore, what tools out there are going to allow me to do that? And at that point is when you’re going to be able to direct yourself to what is the best platform, to what is the best broker.
For example, let’s say you go through, you get your knowledge. You fine-tune your goal and you get this strategy and all that, and you decide, “You know what? Wow. I want to be a day trader of futures,” for example. You would then go and sign up for an options trading broker. Wait. That doesn’t make any sense. Exactly. How would you know that that would make no sense? Well, because you focused on figuring out the knowledge, getting the strategy, and once you got that in place, well now you’re going to know what you should go and do as far as a platform. In my little hypothetical example, you would know that, “Well, I need to go find a broker that’s really good at day trading for futures.” So if you stumble across a broker and platform that specializes in FOREX, well, you would now know well, that’s not the best platform.
So in other words, to wrap this all up, there is no such thing as a best platform. As a best app. As a best broker. Because that’s all dependent on what you’re trading, how you’re trading it, what your goals are, how fast or you need to be in and out of a trade. Things like that. There are many pieces that need to come and be put together first, and then once you have all that, you’re going to know exactly who the best broker and platform is for you.
But again, when people are just getting started, I get it. “Hey, I want to get in the markets. Okay, I need to be able to buy a stock, therefore I need a broker. What’s the best broker?” Well, like you said, you’re not wrong, nobody’s wrong for thinking like that, but there is more to it that goes into it in order to make a wise decision. So yes, very common question, but really backwards when you have to explain it that what people think logically would be the first thing to do is basically one of the last things that you should be focused on.
Now as for today’s episode, super excited for it. Once again, we are going Down Under to talk with an Australian member of the community. He listened to… Well, he’s listened to all episodes, but a few weeks ago we talked to Ron from Australia and he emailed me about some things, and we talked about that right out of the gates. And I said, “Wow. How about you be a guest?” And he was a little reluctant, but he agreed, which I really do appreciate it and I’m glad he did. As I admit at the end, I was a little nervous about this because he made me seem like, “Oh great. Are you going to be really tough to talk to?” But totally easy to talk to. Great stuff.
A little… not really a spoiler, but at the very beginning we do talk about the Australian brokers and how that works, but don’t worry. That’s not like the entire interview. So for you American or Canadian or whatever other countries you’re from, like I said, that conversation lasts for, I don’t know, three or four minutes, and then we go on to Dan and his journey, and he’s got a great journey. He’s got a lot of great things to say. And he’s very honest about things.
I don’t want to offer up too much, but he’s had some great success. Now he’s… he’s not failing or anything, but yeah, like all traders, hitting a little bit of a rough patch, and he’s gone through a lot, and it’s always interesting to see people’s perspectives. Especially when they’re coming at things from a much different geographic location. At the end of the day, the markets are the markets, but still, there’s different little avenues and kind of angles you can look at things from and pick up quite a bit of nuggets of wisdom.
And then, as I told him, and I would highly, highly recommend you stay around to the end when I ask him the time machine question for those of you that are long-time listeners, always ask a guest at the end if you’re new, “Hey, if I had a time machine and I lent it to you and you could go back to the start and give yourself one bit of advice, what would it be?” His answer, as far as I can remember, I’ve been at this now for four or five years now these podcasts. Time flies. But his answer was… and just the way he said it was just, my favorite. I think the best answer that’s been given up to date so far, so definitely stay around to the end. And I’m sure you’ll want to anyways because it’s a great interview, great discussion. We talk about all sorts of things.
So yeah, with that being said, let’s head to Australia and talk with fellow community member, Dan.
Dan, welcome to the show.
Dan: Good day, mate. No, just kidding. [crosstalk 00:06:19].
Clay: No. No. Please don’t be kidding. That’s things dreams were made of, for… I don’t know about all of us Americans, but for me that is fascinated by you Aussies, right, that’s the right word? You Aussies? Is that proper termino-
Clay: Ozzies. Oh. So was that like a derogatory term I just used, or… ?
Dan: No. No, you just dragged it out a bit. Aussies.
Clay: So it’s supposed to be Aussies? Aussies?
Dan: Just Aussies.
Clay: Ozzies. Ozzies?
Dan: That’s pretty good.
Clay: I wouldn’t make a very good Australian, would I?
Dan: Well, you know, it might take some years, but you’ll [inaudible 00:06:56].
Clay: How long, honest question, how long do you think I would survive in Australia because you guys have sharks, and alligators, and spiders, and snakes? You think I’d make it at least a week, or am I being way too generous in that?
Dan: No. I think you would make it for the rest of your life. All those things are pretty stereotypical. It’s not like you walk down a street and see all that sort of stuff every day. So yeah. It’s not what it’s made out to be.
Clay: I kind of envision it as you walk down the street and snakes are dropping out of trees and spiders are just like jumping out of bushes on you, but apparently I have a little bit of a misconception of Australia. But-
Dan: No. It’s not that bad. We do have those things, but it’s not that bad.
Clay: Well, it’s still fun to talk to somebody because I picture you as… You’ve seen Crocodile Dundee, or have you heard of the movie?
Dan: Yeah, of course.
Clay: All right. I think that’s just my Hollywoodized version of Australia, but for listeners’ sake, if you’re not an avid listener, probably four episodes ago, that’s a guess, four or five episodes ago… Let me put it this way. Within the last 10 episodes, talked with our first Australian ever, Ron, and after that aired, I got an email from Dan saying, “Hey, I’m an Australian too.” And Dan, you kind of filled me in on kind of some things that Ron was unsure of. And I want to start off there just for clarification sake because for context, Ron wasn’t quite sure about brokerages and how we could access the Australian stock market, and he was just unsure of quite a few things. And then Dan, like I said, emailed me.
So just in case there’s any other Australian listeners, which I know there are, could you just kind of recap what you explained to me in that email so that Australians, anybody listening, actually… Obviously, Ron didn’t mislead anybody purposely, but maybe somebody that had maybe a false idea of how it all worked. So can you share what you told me in that email?
Dan: Yeah. The thing was he seemed to think he’d searched high and wide, had access to the Australian market and didn’t seem to be able to do it. And I found that a bit odd that he hasn’t been able to find something because it’s really not that hard, like most [inaudible 00:09:13], and he did mention you can do it throughout major banks, and they have a brokerage, and all that sort of stuff.
And the… thing is, he may have not realized or whatever, but he said about it takes three days to get into a stock and three days to get out. There is like a settlement period, like a trading day plus, I think it’s two days now, something like that, but you can buy and you can sell within however quick you want to hit the button. Yeah, there’s a clearing period. I’m not sure if that exists in the US, but you can… but you’re not limited on, you can’t take another trade for three days or anything like that. So, it was just a bit odd.
And obviously, there’s the brokerage costing here now, and a lot of our brokers, there’s this sort of two different models. This is… I just want to say I don’t know everything for certain, but everything I do know is a bit subjective and just my opinion of what I’ve learned. But there’s sort of two broker models. There’s a, I think, it’s a custodian model, and there’s a CHESS sponsorship model. The CHESS sponsorship model, you actually hold the shares in your own name. So if… tied to either brokerist, I guess. If the broker you’re using and your CHESS sponsor disappeared, went bankrupt, those shares, they’re actually in your own name. You physically have a CHESS certificate stating that you own so many shares or whatever it is that you own through the market. And basically that’s physically yours.
The custodian model, which I think might be have more US brokers operate, is you’re actually transferring your money to that broker, they hold it in sort of a segregated pools of funds or however that works, but you don’t physically own the shares. The brokers have hold of the shares. Or have hold of the shares sort of in trust to you, I guess, but you’re not CHESS sponsored. You don’t have that CHESS number stating that that parcel of shares actually belongs to you. So that’s sort of my little bit on Australian brokerage. It’s not hard to get into. And I trade in and out all day, everyday, and yeah, it’s not difficult.
Clay: And it sounds almost exactly like the American markets. The whole settlement thing is not like, “Oh, I have to buy, and then I’m not able to sell for three days.” It’s a matter of, no you can buy and sell, but then you have to let that cash “settle” as we would call it here in America, and then after that settlement period, whatever it is, all vehicles are different, for example, stock vs. an option, but point being that sounds very familiar to the American markets. And correct me if I’m wrong, but would it be as easy as going on Australia’s Google and just searching online stockbrokers, and would that start to give you access to those types of brokers that you’re talking about? Is that a safe assumption on my end?
Dan: Yeah, it is. It’s really as easy as that. Google stockbrokers, and it’ll come up with a list of them. You can go to comparison sites to see the different brokerage across different brokers. It’s been really good now that Interactive Brokers is actually Australian based and they have access to the Australian market, because that has dropped my brokerage costs down considerably. Before that, as cheap as I was getting… Actually no. At the very start, when I first started with E-Trade Australia, which is now pretty much ANZ, which is one of our major banks, I was paying $19.95 per trade. And when you’re talking small amounts, $19.95, that’s a big chunk as a percentage.
Clay: I don’t care if you’re talking big amounts. To put that in context, for you listeners, remember, a trade has actually two trades. You have the buy and then you have the sell. So any trade literally you’re starting $40 in the hole. That’s pretty crazy. What sounds even crazier now with everything going on here in America where we have the commission wars going on with the broker wars where everybody’s slashing their commissions down to $0, so to hear $19.99 for one way, that’s crazy. And that’s… So, that’s what you were paying before Interactive Brokers started to lower the commissions?
Dan: Yeah. So that was the first broker I opened up with. And this is going back… over 10 years. So, over the years, every now and then you do a search, what’s the cheapest brokerage? And eventually another bank, nabtrade, they were $14.95, and I couldn’t seem to get much better than that, so I moved to nabtrade obviously, because that’s going to wipe $5 off per trade, so there’s 10 bucks each way. But that’s still high.
And there was, I’m sure there was another broker. It might have been as low as $9.90, but then to have the same sort of access through the platform, you then had a monthly fee, and it sort of defeated the purpose of them having cheap brokerage. So, you sort of got to weigh up a few costs at the same time.
Then, years go by. Keep searching. I come across another broker. I think they’re originally UK based. They’re called RJ Markets, and they… Now, this is changing from the CHESS sponsorship model. This is my first experience with custodian model. And they had ASX share trading, and originally the LLC of day broker, but they opened up the access to direct share trading now, which is what I wanted. And they were down to $8 a trade. So, I moved on to them. And so my costs now considerably dropped just in that time.
And in the last couple years obviously, Interactive Brokers, and I can trade ASX at about $5.53 or whatever the fee comes out to be, but yeah, it’s a far cry from the $20 each way.
Clay: Yeah, that’s pretty crazy and you got to think at some point, $0 commissions will get over… or down under to you guys too. But I do agree. From 1999 to where you are now, it’s definitely trending in the right direction. But we take a little different path. Usually with the first-time guest, we start at the beginning, but we want to keep our listeners… we don’t want to keep them too on balance. We want to keep them off balance. But we will go back to the traditional model here and to hear more of Dan’s journey here.
But where did all of this actually start for you? You mentioned 10 years ago, so you’ve clearly been in the market for a while. But, where did you first hear about the markets? What sort of things were happening that took you to the point where you made the decision, “You know what? I want to learn more. I want to get more involved with this market stuff?”
Dan: It really comes down to as a kid… Well, I’ve always loved money. I always wanted money, loved money. From a young age I seen that money allows you to do things that not having money doesn’t allow you to do. And I think it’s… I used to love DuckTales as a kid, and Scrooge McDuck, he could do whatever he wanted. And that seemed very appealing to me as a youngster. So obviously, it was all about money, and the money, I mean he could dive in. How great would that be?
Then as you get older, conversations with parents. I remember mom and dad maybe mentioning the stock market. Not getting into it at all, but made mention of it from time to time. And other conversations where sort of realizing that a rich person’s not necessarily rich in a sense they just got cash ready to go. It’s they can be something which new to me when I first hear it, which was that they can be rich in assets. They can be rich in the wealth that they own in things. So that stuff’s always sort of been in the back of my head from a very young age.
Moving on in years, my first child came along and well, I’ve set up a trust fund for her, which just basically consisted of a high interest account, but interest rates were pretty high back then when I set it up. And the original thing was, I was just putting a small amount of money away each week for my daughter, and one day, maybe when she’s 21 or whenever I decide, that’ll be hers.
And through that, so having this money growing, I’ll spend time researching about money, about that leaves to sort of investing and things like that. And I actually heard about E-Trade from, it was actually from a movie. It was a movie not related to trading. It just happened to be one of the characters was a stockbroker. A movie called Double Take. It’s a little bit of an action comedy. It was quite good. But there’s just a scene in that where he’s… the guy is sitting in this broker’s office, and it’s just a quick scene where he’s pretending to be on the phone to a client. He goes, “Well, why you paying people to trade for you anyway? Haven’t you heard of E-Trade?” And he hung up. And so, it’s like E-Trade. What’s E-Trade? What’s this E-Trade thing?
So, obviously, you get online. You search and find E-Trade. And that sort of opens up the world, that, okay. So, I can get involvement to a stock market. You can do it all online. Let’s see what this is about.
And I didn’t do anything straight away. It was maybe another years or so of just research and looking. And I downloaded the E-Trade application, which I sort of read over and sat on for a while. And back then, I was… I looked everything more through a lot negative sort of light. I was a bit like if the worst’s going to happen, it’s going to happen. And that was just the way I used to view things, which isn’t really healthy.
And one day, my now wife, she bought me a book, Rich Dad Poor Dad’s Guide to Investing. I know that’s not the first one, but it’s the first one I read. And like, wow. That just absolutely changed my life. I don’t know if people would get the same… reaction to it that I did, but that book, and then I went on to read the first one and the second one.
Clay: Well, in what ways did it change your life? Was there a certain statement that he said, or was it just the overall philosophy of the book? But, how did that-
Dan: There is a certain-
Clay: … book, in what ways did it change your life? Because that’s… what you want. It sounds like you had a total perspective shift, so-
Dan: Oh, absolutely.
Clay: … what was it that helped with you shifting your perspective?
Dan: It was… And it really comes down to one line, I think. There’s a lot to it, but one line that always resonates with me is, “You are what you are because of the choices you’ve made.” And that’s sort of the subject. That’s what I took from those books really was you are where you are in your life, be if financially, be it not financially, but you’ve got no one to blame but yourself really. And the Rich Dad thing is all about don’t say things that you don’t want because you don’t want to focus on things you want but you don’t want. You want to talk about things you do want so your focus goes to those places.
And when I read those books, other than open my eyes up more to investing and business and all that sort of stuff, and sort of getting a real big interest shift in my life, just that concept of, oh, I don’t have things because I haven’t… what have I really done to get these, whether it be an expensive thing I want. I don’t have it because I haven’t done it to get it. And it’s just… that was just absolutely life changing, massive moment in my life.
Clay: Yeah, for me with Rich Dad Poor Dad, I always loved the line, “The poor dad says, ‘I can’t afford that.’ The rich dad says, ‘How can I afford that?’” And that little viewpoint on the world, that really does make such a difference. Putting trading and investing aside, well, I can’t do that vs. how can I do that? That’s as black and white as it can get, but… And all it is is a thought. All it is is an attitude, but it sure can take you far. So I’m with you on just the importance of mindset, and that’s… really that’s the first step as far as I’m concerned is it’s hard to make any progress in life if you have the wrong attitude going into it all.
So anyways, that was a good talking point for sure. But you read that book, it changed your perspective, so I’ll let you pick back up the journey from that point.
Dan: So that was, like you said, it was. It was a big mind shift just as the way you view your life sort of thing. So, I’m thinking it was after that I opened the account with E-Trade. And for whatever, I know somewhere in those books that you said about IPOs and initial public offerings, and I didn’t want to go invest in a new company because normally you go to buy a certain amount of shares, and I didn’t have the money to do it anyway. But, I thought, I’ll get on the register and see what’s been recently listed, and I’ll have a look at something.
Now mind you, I don’t know anything about technical analysis. I only know that you can invest in stocks in the stock market. And for whatever reason, I got excited about hydrogen. I was thinking combustion engines, how we going to run them not on fuel? Surely we can use hydrogen. So I took a tax return, $500, and I invested in a hydrogen company. And I still own that today, and it’s worth about $30. So, needless to say, it probably wasn’t the best investment, and I sort of just hold it because I’m not that desperate for my 30 bucks.
Clay: Honestly though, and given you’ve listened. You know my story. That’s 10 times better than me thinking that I was going to make money on a stainless steel muffler company. At least you had some sort of thesis of, “Hey, you know what? Because of this, that, the other, we’re going to need hydrogen to fuel that, to make things happen.” Okay, I actually can see that. That’s actually makes… I can see that you used some science, but, yeah. It didn’t work out. So welcome to the club, but it still doesn’t beat my stupidity. So, it is what it is, but…
Out of curiosity, so you come with the general idea. Do you remember at all how you arrived at that company? Was it just simply, “Oh, this company specializes in hydrogen?” Or did you dig into the “books” a little bit more? But what was your actual research process at that point?
Dan: Well, like I said, I was thinking of IPOs, but doing a bit of an after an IPO thing. So, I literally went to the list. I searched for listed hydrogen companies that have only just been listed, and I seen one there, and I went on their website, and I thought, “Oh, that sounds cool.” And yeah. Invested.
Clay: So, “Oh, that sounds cool.” That’s where we all start. What I thought sounded cool was stainless steel mufflers, but yeah. Anyways. All right, well, you made that first investment. It’s now worth $30, but was that… You made that first. You put your money in the market. Then did that… was that a first domino that just all of a sudden, now you’re researching all sorts of other companies? Or is that a situation where you put the money in, and then you just walked away for an extended period of time? But where did your journey actually take you after you finally put some of your skin into the game?
Dan: Obviously, I had not grand plans but I think I would have only bought it for maybe, I forget what the original purchase price was. It was under a dollar. And I thought, “Oh cool. When this goes to a dollar, I’m going to sell it.” And it never did. And… so, it would sit there and I watched it, and I watched it go down and down and down over the years, and I thought, “Don’t worry about that.” But so, in amongst all that, obviously I’m still looking around. I’m still researching. I’m still trying to… Well, not trying to. I’m interested. I’m looking. Just trying to get any information that I can.
And I learned about ETFs. Now ETFs, when I came across them, I thought, “Well, that’s a pretty good concept because unlike my hydrogen investment, which was all the eggs in one basket, ETFs as you know, it spreads it out across a lot. And it was getting to the point where my first child’s fund now was to the point of a few thousand dollars, and I thought when it… interest rates are dropping, and obviously a lot of reading and stuff I’d done in the meantime was, I’ve got to invest her trust fund.
So I opened another E-Trade account under in trust for my daughter, and I bought I think it was the ETF that basically tracks out ASX top 200. And that’s still in her portfolio today, and it has been a really good performer. Capital growth obviously goes up and down with the market being the ETF that tracks the 200, but just the dividend distributions have been brilliant for her account, so that was the second thing I sort of went into was that ETF route as far as now starting to not trade, but invest in the kid’s trust fund.
Clay: And what strikes me there and that’s just pure motivation to me is it goes back to your whole mindset is, well, why did that all work out so well? Why does your daughter’s account, why is it sitting so pretty right now as we talk? Well, because you did something. You made a choice to do something, and you did it. You didn’t just talk about it. You didn’t just say, “Well, I’m going to do it soon.” No, you actually did it, and now all of a sudden, you’re sitting, or and the account is sitting in a much better spot. So to listeners out there, just stop saying you’re going to do something soon. I don’t even care if it has anything to do with trading or investing. Just stop saying “soon” and just do it. Would you agree with that, Dan?
Dan: Oh, absolutely would. It all comes down to action. You just got to take action. If you’re still unsure, take… and the action, depending on what you’re taking action on, if you’re still a bit unsure, just take action with a lesser amount if there’s a value attached to it. Just… you got to take some sort of action, or… analysis paralysis. You sit there and you’ll analyze all the data you can, but you won’t actually move on it. And it all comes down to action in the end. If we don’t take that step, where you going to go?
Clay: Yeah, absolutely. Well said. And I cut you off there. But anyways, you’re investing in your daughter’s account, and with the dividend distributions and all that. And the ASX, is that the entire market as a whole, pretty much like our, in America, we have the SPY, which is the… basically the entire stock market. Is that what the ASX is essentially tracking?
Dan: Oh yes. Sorry. Yeah. ASX is the Australian Stock Exchange.
Clay: ISX or A?
Dan: A. Australian.
Clay: A. A as in… Okay. There we go. That would make sense. An I… Wait, why… That would… makes very good sense.
So you’re doing that. It’s growing, and out of… What years, ballpark years is all this occurring?
Dan: I would say-
Clay: It’s okay if you have no idea. Because I realize the older I get, I realize the years blend together that much more, so if you really have no idea-
Dan: I’m actually the same year model as you, by the way. So, we’re the same age.
Clay: And you’ve been in this for over 10… I guess I… We’re getting old, Dan. We’re getting old. I hear yeah, that 10 years ago, and I’m thinking, “Man. This guy’s an old timer.” But then it just dawned on me, “Wait a second… ”
Dan: We’re the same age. Yeah.
Clay: Oh, wait a second. I’ve definitely-
Dan: And don’t worry. My wife and kids tell me that all the time.
Clay: … been in the market for over 10 years too. Oh man. That was actually… That was not very pleasant for me. I have been in the market for actually well over 10 years now, and here-
Dan: Don’t think too hard.
Clay: Yeah. Trust me-
Dan: Don’t think about it too hard.
Clay: Yeah, I don’t struggle in the thinking department. But so it was a while ago, and the account has grown. But back to that moment in time, where did things kind of shift over to you wanting to get more active in the markets and where you started to put more money, I don’t want to say in like a day trading fashion, but where did things kind of transition from, “Hey, I’m just setting money aside over and over again in my daughter’s account,” to, “Hey, I want to get that much more active within my own account?”
Dan: I’m thinking the year’s… just backtracking a bit. It was probably around 2005, 2006. So I’m moving on. FX trading, FOREX, was a bit of a hype around here for a while. And it was advertised on the radio. I went to a free seminar, and they sort of explained a little bit about it, and show you some charts, and show you how price moves, and things like that, and they hit you with the thing at the end of it, “Oh, if you want to pay five grand, we can teach you this stuff.”
And so, okay, well, I won’t be doing that. And… What I did do though, even in that free episode, was open up the world of technical analysis. It’s like hang on. What is this? This is different. This is more up my alley because I’m a bit of a self-confessed geek and I enjoy computers and that, and I can have these things on my screen. I can look at price action. I can trade according to what I’m finding. This sounds awesome.
And they… as far as it sort of went was explaining what a candlestick was, and support and resistance, and how things trend. Not in depth by any words, but basically explain these things exist, so it gives me something else to sort of, hang on. Let’s go down this path and look more into that.
So eventually, I give FX a go. I opened a practice account with I can’t remember who, and it was actually going all right in the practice account, and it wasn’t going all right in the sense of if you do $100,000 account and you do $50,000 trades. I was more thinking, well, I’m not going to… I couldn’t change the value of the account, but oh no, I’m not going to trade $100,000, so I would just say, “All right, this is how much I would have so let’s just treat it like that.”
And I was slowly growing that account. So I thought, oh, I must be good at this. So another $500. I open up an account, and I don’t know what it is with FOREX because I have been back there over the years. Every time something seems to work, it will pretty quick not work, and it sort of goes from that practice account when what you were doing was working, and then you go live and do the same thing, and all of a sudden that stops working. And it’s like those… you think someone’s watching you. Someone’s out there like, “All right, he’s in. Let’s do the opposite.” And it’s just one of those mind games that I hear everyone sort of has so you think someone’s out to get you.
Clay: Yup. Somebody’s always got a ladder up against the side of your house or apartment, and they’re looking in the window. I’ve been there many times before. So-
Dan: [crosstalk 00:34:48].
Clay: … it sounds like that $500 in the FOREX account, did that go poof, or did you realize before it went poof that something wasn’t quite right, or… ? Walk us through that first FOREX account.
Dan: Yeah, no, it pretty much went poof. Not all at once, but slowly it went down, and obviously things weren’t working. But the thing was, I never played with money that was necessary. Like I wasn’t relying on bills. I wasn’t relying on rent. I wasn’t… you know, that rent at the time. It was always, okay, I’ve got this. This is what I’ve got to play with. If it’s gone, it’s gone, but it’s not going to hurt me.
I think it’s important for people to realize you just don’t go and take money that you’re going to rely on, that you’re going to miss and go and try these things, because there’s a good chance that it might not work out, and you don’t want to be banging yourself later on, “Okay, I shouldn’t have done that.”
Clay: I fully agree, and I would just add on top of that, even if you know what you’re doing, even if you can read a technical chart like a pro, even if you can manage your account like a pro, don’t do it because the mental pressures of you having the little voice sitting on your shoulder saying, “You know, if you lose this money,” that actually is going to make a difference in your personal finances. That’s actually going to imply that you can’t pay, fill in the blank. So it doesn’t matter even if you do know what you’re doing, even if you are the best chart reader and you can analyze a chart with the best of them, if you’re using money that you cannot actually afford to lose, yes, to echo Dan, don’t do that. It’s not a good situation. That’s a good point, and one that has been made before but really can never be made too many times. There’s nothing more scary or sad when I hear from people and they’re basically saying, “Yeah, I needed that money.” Or in some cases, the extreme cases which has happened, “Yeah, I took a loan, and now that loan money is gone.” It’s like, okay. Now things have spun out of control way too fast. But I fully agree there.
Do you remember? What was your or what did you think your strategy was at that time? Were you looking to day trade the FOREX? Were you looking to swing trade? What exactly did you think you were doing at the time?
Dan: I guess I’ve always been in probably the swing trade timeframe, being that I don’t want to be holding for a long time, but whether I sell same day, next day, within a week, it’s never really bothered me. So I am a big fan of probably the swing. But yeah, that’s just where I seem to gravitate to. And I guess with working full time, that’s what works for me as well. And back then with the FOREX obviously, the hopes I had was I could add extra income per week to what I was already earning at work, and that didn’t happen. Put it that way.
Clay: So even right now you’re still more of a swing trader type trader?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Still swing trade. I still work full time. I actually… I work full time. I’ve got my own business on the side, plus I do the trading as well. It takes up a lot of time, but it’s also an interest so it doesn’t feel like work as such. But it is more of a swing trade thing. I’m not in front of the computer all day to be able to day trade.
Clay: Well, that’s interesting because most times people start off thinking or wanting to do one thing, and then they end up saying, “Well, geez. I wasn’t even on the right path at all.” And once they learn more and get the knowledge, then they realize that they should be doing something else, which is totally different. But kudos to you that you realized way back then that you wanted to do more of a swing trading thing, and there you are still doing a swing trading thing because I would say that’s probably the exception and not the rule.
But where did all this take you? That account bled away, and did you then move on from FOREX, or at what point did more so… I guess I really don’t know if you’re doing stocks or anything right now, but where did that FOREX experience take you up after that account dwindled down to zero?
Dan: The thing to keep in mind through all this, I’ve still got my kids’ trust funds sitting there as well, so I’m always investing in a sense, whether that be ETFs or doing a bit of just direct company investing directly in company stock which normally a blue chip stock, so not trying to take any risks with their accounts. And usually a lot of the choices with their accounts is to do with dividends. So I want something that’s paying a dividend, and obviously to help keep funding it and growing the thing over time.
In the… I can’t think where we are in the timeframe now, but possibly my second child is here now, so actually there’s another trust fund on the way now because they’ve each got one. And… What happened next? Oh, I briefly met someone who traded futures full time. So this was a bit of a confirmation that Holy Dooley, people do trade and they do it as a job. Like you can do this. And it was a bit of a confirmation that this can exist. And this isn’t someone in a bank building or anything like that. Literally from their home office they would trade.
And I did meet with him once to just discuss things, and he recommended to stick with, at the very start, to stick with stocks because they’re a lot more… they’re not safe, but safer in a way compared to other products out there. You buy direct stock; you don’t have leverage and all that sort of stuff that can easily go against you. And a bit more, that sort of led him to learning indicators and moving averages and stochastics, etc., to do it with the charts he sort of explained what these different things can show, and how they’re tied into the price, and sort of let me know of a basic strategy to look out for as far as moving averages and things like that. So further on, that just furthered my… more so understanding of technical analysis and you getting more in depth of there’s so much more goes into it.
So after that I was actually paper trading for a bit. But I’m really not the best at paper trading. I find that, and I have heard a few people on your podcast that feel the same way, but there’s just that lack of feeling real. It’s hard to explain in a way, but when you just, even if it’s a small amount of money, when you’ve got that invested or currently in a position, a bit more mentally you’re more onto it and about what it’s doing through the day. You don’t lapse and think, “Oh, I’ll just check up on it tomorrow.” You are going to stick to it because you know it’s there. And you’ve got that little bit of paper trade creep in a way as well that if you’re not watching it live, you might go back through and see what the day’s action was, and you might pick that, well, I probably would have sold out there. But necessarily, you don’t know if you would have sold out there or not. So it’s sort of that bit of kidding yourself in a sense as well.
So I just, for me the paper trade thing, I don’t mind the… practice accounts. But to paper trade, I found for me, it definitely… the interest in it certainly drops away pretty quick for me, and as I’ve heard, for other people as well. It’s definitely… you’ve got to go live to feel the reality and to really keep you in check on managing your positions and things like that.
Clay: Do you when you go… which I do fully see, but I’m assuming that you are not saying, “Hey, you know what? I have $5,000 so I’m just going to put all $5,000 in, and I’m just going to get right to it. Because I don’t feel anything paper trading, so I’m just going to go with my full amount.” I’m assuming you’re saying, “No, no. If you have $5,000, maybe take $500 of that and use it to kind of feel and practice with.” Is that more what you’re getting at?
Dan: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s not about big amounts. It’s about using it, definitely keep it as small as you can. I don’t know if it’s the same for the US market, but in Australia the minimum first trade size you can do to open a position is $500. Then as you can imagine, like we’ve said about at the start with the brokerage costs, it was pretty hard years back to try and do it, the small position, when if you’re to do a $500 trade and straightaway, you’re $20 out of that as well, and if you sold it, like you said, there was $40. So there’s definitely what you can do with the small amount as well, and how small you can be.
Dan: Sorry. Keep going.
Clay: No. I’m sorry. I was just saying that’s actually quite crazy because at $500, let’s say that you did a great trading. You make a 10% on a trade, which is really good. 10%, especially let’s just call it a few days or something like that. You’re not going to get that at your local credit union or bank. But okay, 10% on $500 is 50 bucks, but to your point, when it costs you 20 bucks to buy and 20 bucks to sell, oh, all right. So you walked away with a $10 profit. Which very, very difficult to make money for sure. That’s actually kind of crazy that they would…. It is what it is, but I’m just glad to know that things have changed for you from the commissions’ standpoint.
Dan: Yeah, that’s only been recently too, so it’s good.
Clay: That’s very good. Very good. Now, you’re paper trading, and then you put money in, and did you ever do futures, or did you just realize, you listened to your buddy and he said, “No, no. Stay away from futures and just do stocks,” so you just, you never did futures, right?
Dan: No. I haven’t touched the futures market. I haven’t looked at how to get into it, so I wouldn’t even be able to tell you how. Really other than the paper trading bit and the kids’ trust funds, it was… I really got through a lot of books on trading, investing, a lot of technical analysis books. I spent a lot of time looking at markets through charts. Eventually I did a options course that was hosted in Sydney. It was a paid-for one, but the price was quite decent. I think it was a two-day event and that was quite good, but again it was Australian… it was options on the Australian market, and I don’t know what year this… this is probably 2010. The… What do you call it? The option contracts size… so one contract was actually a parcel of 1,000 shares, whereas now it’s changed. It’s now 100. But every contract you’d be buying a fit lot, the options, for 1,000 shares.
And again, the brokerage, man, it was $40 a trade for options trades. And still today, to do Australian option trades, not including Interactive Brokers. I haven’t done it through them, but I’m pretty sure that the brokerage on options even for the ASX is maybe $6 or something, but you just look up a broker as far as what I’ve seen when I’ve looked, and there like an options trade might cost you $25. Again, in and out, there’s 50 bucks gone. We just get nailed with brokerage here. I don’t know what it is, but it’s just… I imagine it keeps people out of the market, if anything.
Clay: Oh yeah. The math, it just works totally against you, so I don’t think that’s a crazy statement at all to think that it keeps people out just because you got to give people the benefit of the doubt that they can do simple math and to realize, “Wait a second. That’s not going to quite work out.” But wow. $40 on options trading. That’s nuts.
So at what point did you start to move into… You were obviously experimenting a lot. Your buddy, or the person, you went to some classes, and did you then transition to Interactive Brokers at that point, or where did Interactive Brokers start to come into the picture for you?
Dan: A few more years went by. Basically still learning, observing, coming up with different ideas to see how they go on chart. Eventually, it was more when I got to IG, I got that first custodian, cheapest sort of brokerage, it was $8 a trade, I got more active into trading. Which was maybe would have been a few years ago.
And… all technical based. And I was actually… I’d say, I was probably better than breakeven just being conservative. Just say I was pretty much breakeven. I was just sort of floundering along. I wasn’t losing. I wasn’t winning. I was just sort of keeping things at bay. And it was around… I was actually in… It was around that time, which I’m pretty sure that takes us back to 2016 or something, that I sort of got to the point I was doing that. I think, I feel like I’m going nowhere, and it’s like I just, I want to… there’s got to be something more I’m not seeing or understanding, or just to get a different perception on it.
And I’d actually… I’d already… One day in the car, I searched just trading podcasts and your podcast come up, Trading Reality Podcast, so that’s how I originally found out about you was through the podcast. And I listened to the first episode, and the second episode, and I got hooked, and I just started listening. And I was a few episodes in before I actually listened to the voiceover guy at the end saying, “Visit ClayTrader.com.” And-
Clay: Hey, that was a good American accent. That was solid. Fantas- Well done.
Dan: Well, I’ve listened enough to your podcast. [crosstalk 00:50:07] picked up on it.
Clay: Now see, my Australian accent… My Australian accent, my wife told me sounds like it’s an English accent, so I won’t even try. But hey, that was really good.
Dan: Good. Thanks. So I thought, well, okay. What’s at ClayTrader.com? Obviously I got on your website, and I go, “Oh this… Okay. This guy does all like more stuff as well. Okay that’s interesting.” So had a look, and it’s like the offer at the time, you were offering separate courses and then there’s the whole package deal thing. I was, “Okay, cool.” I says, “Oh, well, geez, that’s a decent price too,” compared to some things suck you in, and then they want more and more and more, and what you’re offering was like this is what you get. And I thought that’s pretty decent. But I didn’t move on it then. I was still doing my thing, listening to the podcast. And I think it was episode 55. I think it was Super Dave or something like that. Somewhere within his story is like, “No. I’ve just got to stop.” He’s shut down his accounts, and he went and moved, and just took all the money out. I think it’s the point where he bought CTU or something like that.
And when I listened to that and I just thought, you know what? I feel that same way. And that, I think I emailed you that night about something. I don’t know what it was. I can’t remember exactly what it was. And I did, I went, I shut any open position I had, whether it was winning, losing, I shut it all down. Once the funds had cleared, I moved it into my account. I think two days later, I logged onto ClayTrader and that’s when I bought CTU.
And one of the biggest hurdles was, is going to an American site and seeing the price was $2,000 or whatever it was then, and then it’s like, “Oh, that sounds good. I’m going to do that.” And then you go and do a conversion rate to the Aussie dollar, and it’s, “Oh, [inaudible 00:52:14]. This is going to cost me three grand.” And now you’ve gone and you’ve seen one price, you’ve seen two grand. And then it’s like, you’re going to do the purchase, and there’s like, “Oh, man. This is… Dammit.” And it’s like, “No. I’m doing it anyway.” But like I said, “I’ve shut everything down. This is what I’m doing.” And yeah, that was a bit of a hurdle with making the decision to start with was just like… bugger.
Clay: I can understand that where your mind gets locked on one number, but then you don’t connect to dots. Wait a second. There might be a currency exchange here. And then all of a sudden, yeah. You see a much bigger number.
But I commend you. I’ve had many people say, “Hey, I want to buy but after I did the currency, it’s now this.” And I just went, “Yeah. I’m sorry. That’s just the way the currency markets work.” And I know a lot of people just, “All right, well, then I’m not going to do it,” because yeah, they get too bummed out, and then they just go back on their merry way and I’ve had some people say, “Yeah, well now I should have done it, but now I can’t even afford it because the money I should have used, the market has taken from me.” So good for you that you were able to overcome that. But I can totally see how that would be a pretty big mind hurdle like you said that you’d have to clear.
So you got in to ClayTrader University, and you just… like you said, you shut down all your accounts, so how long did you go through everything before you decided to open back up an account again?
Dan: Well, it was probably a few months that I stayed out. And obviously your recommendation of how to take it, I went through the robotic trading, and… Well, I already knew flowcharts, technical analysis, and things like that. It was good to see a new perspective on it and just a new way of thinking about things. And I guess one of the big pickups was just the way you explained… just the price action within a candle itself. What if a certain… what’s happening when a candle looks this way, and what’s happening when a candle looks the other way, and creating the story behind it in a sense. I thought that’s, to me, that was… that’s a really good different way of thinking about it, and I guess a fresh approach and not something that I’m sort of making up, so I wouldn’t know if it’s being successful or worked or not, to sort of… You’ve obviously had this out there. Other people have been using it, and all that sort of stuff. So I can take definitely what I’m listening and watching that this has got value to it as well. So it was just really refreshing to see a different approach more in depth on certain topics about what I hadn’t gone into depth on, and things like that.
So after that, a few more months, I topped accounts back up and for that financial year, I actually did pretty well. I’m only playing with a, I’m not a millionaire or anything. I’m only playing with a small account, but it certainly… it went up for that financial year. Unfortunately, I don’t know what it’s been, but the next six months but, I have just been struggling. And it seems to be every time that your President wants to tweet about trade agreements or whatever, I can pretty much expect that, oh no. This is going to cost me. And the next day, sure enough. I’ll probably get a stop loss. But I’m just in a different phase, I guess, at the moment.
Clay: That is… especially when you’re swing trading, all it takes is one tweet in this day and age, and that does make quite a bit of a difference. And assuming, and giving you the benefit of the doubt, which it sounds like, you’ve taken, you’re trading everything seriously, so assuming everything about that trade plan was logical, yeah, sometimes as logical as it can be and as many positive attributes that a trade setup may be giving you, yeah, all it takes is some sort of tweet or some kind of external news, and all of a sudden, then the market’s all over the place.
You’ve been struggling, but… hopefully not in a sense that you haven’t blown up your account or anything like that. You’ve just been struggling in the sense of it doesn’t feel like you can get any traction, or have you blown up an account or anything?
Dan: No, no. I’ve never blown up an account.
Clay: Okay. Good.
Dan: I would like to think I’m a bit more conservative than that, but yeah, it’s just basically what I had made. I’m still not even eating into original capital, but what I had made I’m sort of eating into what I’d made before, and it’s just trying to find that ground again that things are going to work.
I don’t know if… I do wonder and it might be just me, but the market just seems to move a little bit different too, from a lot of examples and things that sort of like that you go through. They seem to respect a bit more certain levels than what I find ours will do. Ours will sometimes, like you think it’s going happen as far as support, resistance, it’s going to respect that trend in a sense, but it’ll just turn around and bite you. And it’s like, well, I wasn’t expecting that. I thought there’d be a bit more people behind that barrier, but it’s not the case. If that sort of makes sense.
Clay: That does make sense. My question would be, with Interactive Brokers, have you ever thought of trying to trade the United States markets?
Dan: Yes. That is… Thought about it, yes. I haven’t done it yet. But that is something-
Clay: Because maybe-
Dan: … moving forward I would like to sort of venture into.
Clay: Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you think that our market, our being the USA market, seems to respect the technical patterns better than what the Australia market seems to respect? Is that what you were saying?
Dan: In my opinion of what I’ve seen, it does seem to. I could be totally wrong. It could be me that’s totally wrong. I’m not denying that either. But it certainly… it does… You just look at some things, you think, “Oh, surely that is going to be… that’s the sort of pattern you’d expect this sort of thing to happen,” or you sort of get a breakout and it’s pretty good, and then you’ll think, “All right. Just wait for confirmation on that. There’s my confirmation. All right, I’m getting in.” Bang. The thing will go down.
Clay: And I don’t know this for sure, but I do know that the more liquidity a market has, the more… predictable is not the right word, but the more chart patterns work and respect things because you just have that many more people, and there is definitely that attribute of self-fulfilling prophecies. And I know that the United States markets, they’re the most liquid markets in the world outside of FOREX, but as far as stock markets are concerned, United States markets well above all other markets in terms of liquidity, so I would probably agree that yeah, because of that what you are observing is probably true, which kind of led to my question of, well, have you considered the… accessing the United States market through Interactive Brokers.
So I’m glad that you are considering that, and in my mind, it sounds like it makes sense for you to do that based on these observations. If that’s what you’re observing, and you’re not quite sure, and I can’t say for sure either, but really there’s only one way to find out, and that’s to take a few hundred bucks or whatever and throw that into an account that gets access to the American markets because…
Dan: Yeah, I’d have to agree with-
Clay: Does that make sense?
Dan: Yeah. I sort of think the same way as far as liquidity and market size, that that might play a factor into it. Not that I ever have a problem getting in or out of a trade in our market. There’s plenty liquidity there, but I’d have to imagine with the sheer amount of big liquidity that happens in the US that there’s just so much more activity, and maybe that is a factor. That definitely has crossed my mind too is being that factor, so yeah, certainly something that I would like to venture into as well.
Obviously one of the things is just time as well. Obviously, my time zone’s a lot different to yours, so it all comes down to timing as well.
Clay: No. Absolutely. And you’re already, you said you work a job. You have a side hustle. So you’re making choices. You’re doing stuff in life, and that’s what I like to hear. That’s pure motivation right there.
But overall, you’re still green. Your account is still up from maybe… I guess probably from the start of your journey, but it sounds like after you got ClayTrader University, from that point forward, after you… buttoned up all the hatches and everything, you got a little bit better understanding of everything, your account’s still green overall. You’re just as of right now in a little bit of a rough patch. Is that a fair summary of where things stand right now?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Clay: Well, that’s… don’t worry. I get where you’re coming from, so I’m not trying to come across as like not being compassionate here, but there are much bigger problems that a lot of people have other than where you sit right now. So I get your frustration and you’re justified to be frustrated, but you-
Dan: [crosstalk 01:02:27].
Clay: … also got to keep things in perspective where you’re sitting. Yeah, you know, it’s not like any of this is eating into my original capital. It’s just eating into some of the gains that I’ve already made, and my account has already grown. That’s definitely a good thing. That’s a good thing that very clearly you’re not out there reckless, and I can tell you that because the reason behind, “Well, have you blown up any accounts?” Is, “Well, yeah, I took a huge hit.” Well then that makes me wonder, I don’t know, maybe those gains in the first place were kind of just lucky because you were just throwing stuff around and you hit a couple of home runs blinded, but now all of a sudden you got bit in a big way. But like you said, it’s not like your accounts are bleeding down into an oblivion and blowing up or anything like that. So it sounds like just a rough patch right now, and all traders hit them, and it’s really just about identifying a potential issue, which it sounds like you have given the last part of our conversation here.
Or maybe you just got to dip your toe in the water as far as the USA markets, and I fully realize that yeah, the time makes it difficult, but I’m going to shoot straight with you, Dan, that’s kind of a really bad excuse for somebody like you. You’re clearly a beast guy. You’re just in beast mode in life, so if there’s anybody who can figure out how to make that happen, I’m pretty sure it’s you. So with all due respect, get that weak sauce excuse out of the way about these time zones. Yeah, it’s a challenge, but remember. It’s not you can’t do it. How can you do it?
Dan: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Clay: And I’m confident you’re going to get it done.
We’re right under an hour.
Dan: Oh, no. I’ll move on to that eventually.
Clay: Hey, don’t play this soon game and replace with eventually. They’re synonyms, my friend.
Dan: It’s the same thing. Yes. Yes.
Clay: Yes all right. You, obviously, you’re a smart guy. You have a structure and framework in place. But like I said, just from an observation, just me listening to you talk, it seems like a very valid and logical step would be to at least dip your toe in the water for the US markets, not that that’s going to be the Holy Grail, but if that’s what you’ve been observing, you might as well put it to a test and see what happens. And with that, that’s… Did you have anything else you wanted to say? Because we’re right at an hour, and that also leaves us as a good jump-off point, so when we have you back in the future, we’ll hear about how this all played out from hopefully you deciding to go into the American markets, or maybe things kind of turn around. But, we’ll call it good and move on to the final questions unless, did you have anything else, because you clearly came prepared with those pages I hear flipping. Which by the way, I got to be honest, Dan, I was extremely nervous coming into today’s podcast because in this email you’re like, “Well, you know, I’m not… Well, first I’d be like, I kind of swear a lot,” which well done. You… I don’t even know if you swore at all, so thank you. But you made it sound like-
Dan: I’m very in control of myself. Yes.
Clay: … you were some like… You made it sound like you were some bumbling, awkward, idiot that can’t have a conversation, like sits in the corner and stares in the corner, and shakes back and forth, and just mumbles. I was just like, I told my wife, I was just like, “I’m a little nervous about this one because the guy, it makes it sound like I’m going to have… ” But this was… Was that like a mind trick you were trying to play me, because this was a very easy conversation to have, and I… it wasn’t even a challenge. That was… So, I don’t know. I don’t know what to tell you in that regard, but I showed up nervous and apparently I didn’t need to be, so really good job.
Dan: It’s… I did send a different definition the other day, but I’m definitely an introverted person. And my definition of introvert compared to extrovert is from what I find is that extroverts, they get energy from being out in crowds, and being people, being center of attention, and things like that. That is just not me. I’m very much internal, people, being around big crowds absolutely drains me. I’m not a fan of it. But at the same note, and it comes down to customer service is a big part of my job, and the thing… I can do all those things as well. I’m not like you said, rocking… I can sit and rock in a corner if I need to, but I can certainly put myself into the frame of mind that I need to for a certain task… and get it done as the saying goes. I can get things done when they need to be, be who I need to be, but at the very core, I’m an introverted person. Just mainly family, small groups, that’s where my energy comes from.
Clay: No, that’s… I can totally relate because this is totally a sham on my part in the sense of I’m just being who I’m supposed to be to speak to strangers on a publicly aired podcast because I’m an introvert in the exact same way you just described it. So, I can get out and talk to people. I’m not sure if I’m actually that good at it. But is this my favorite thing? I enjoy it, but you put it perfectly. This is who I got to be for this, so this is who I am. But, it’s not like in my normal life I’m walking up to strangers and being like, “Hey. Let’s just talk.” No. I’m the guy kind of stand in the corner, like, I just need a couple close friends and I’m good in life. I don’t need a big crowd. But I feel like-
Dan: Exactly the same.
Clay: … we could have a… Yeah. That’s a good, good description on your part.
Well, final few questions here. First off, if you were to be lent the time machine and you could go back to the start of all this, what would be one bit of advice that you would give yourself?
Dan: The bit of advice… It’s going to sound funny, but it’s going to be listen to my mother. And the story behind that is when I first started working my first part-time job while I was still in school, and she said, “Save 10% of what you earn every week and do it religiously.” And I didn’t do that. And I tell you what. I look at the small amounts that I was doing for my kid’s trust fund and what that’s grown to today, and my oldest daughter, she has a part-time job now, and I gave her the same advice with the extra added bonus that I could show her the value of her trust fund and what the little amounts did. And to her credit, she has stuck every week, or every week that she’s had shifts, she gets paid, 10%, she adds it to this trust fund. And yeah, just from a kid from when she was four… like 14 and nine months when she started working to now, and she is still, every week she’ll put that money away, and to her credit, I just think that is absolutely incredible. And I didn’t do it, and the value that she’s getting out of doing it is just phenomenal. And yeah. Just listen to your mother.
Other than that, I’m a big believer that like you said at the start, I think you are where you are because of decisions and paths you’ve taken, so what I could change outside of that, I wouldn’t know what’s going to lead me to where I want to be. I don’t know what would lead me away from where I want to be. So I wouldn’t really change anything necessarily. You have to go through those lessons in life, but yeah, listen to your mother. Save 10% of what you earn.
Clay: I got to be honest. I don’t know what episode this… 240-something. I think, not I think. That’s my favorite answer to the question we’ve ever had. I think that is also the most practical and epic answer we’ve ever had because you know what, this isn’t necessarily the best from a sales and marketing pitch, but trading just isn’t for some people. It is what it is, it’s just not for some people. Some people just aren’t meant and cut out for it. But you know what everybody can do? Everybody can listen to their mother and just set aside, or listen to Dan’s mother, and set aside 10%. And you do what you just described, and you put it away, and you invest it, and over time it is crazy what can happen with that. So wow. That was the greatest bit of advice that I can remember. And granted, we’ve been doing this podcast now for five years, so maybe there’s something else very epic, but as far as I can remember, Dan’s mother… Is your mother still with us?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah.
Clay: Okay. Well Dan’s mother, if you’re listening to this, I’d like to give you a big hug just because that was a great bit of advice that… You know what? And here’s the cool thing, Dan. We have enough audience now that listens to this where there’s at least one person, at least one person that’s going to hear your mom’s advice, and they’re actually going to do it. And then 30 years from now they’re going to be like, “Man. I don’t remember what that podcast was. I just remember the guy that hosted it was a moron. But besides that, I’m glad that I listened to that one guy that talked funny because he was from some island where we used to send our criminals back in the day, but you know what, I’m glad that I did the 10%.” And there’s at least one person, Dan, one person that 30 years from now, their life is going to be changed… And watch how I tie this up, Dan. Sometimes I just really impress myself. But because they did something. Not soon, but they just started to do it now, and that’s why they’re going to be where they are 30 years from now because they started to do it right now.
Clay: Boom. Mic drop. Let’s go.
Dan: There it is.
Clay: I don’t want to hear your… All right. I’m about to start ranting and raving at all the people here, but I won’t go there. Dan, what is your favorite-
Dan: No, I am honored. I’m honored for the… yeah. Thanks for the compliment there.
Clay: No. That was… Well, that’s practical and something that anybody can do. As some people, like you said-
Dan: I do have something else from a practical sort of view.
Clay: Go for it.
Dan: And it’s something that I’ve learned as a view in regards to debt, particularly bad debt. But it’s funny because it sort of almost ties into your time machine question. It might be a segue or whatever. But I don’t remember reading this anywhere. As far as I know it’s something I made up. I hope it is. I hope it’s original to me, but my class… And if I’m talking to people about debt, and normally young people, I tell them, “Debt is the reality time machine that we have. If time machines are a myth, they’re not. Debt is the time machine that we do have.” And the reason that I say that is because think of it as you are literally accessing your future self, you’re accessing your future income, and you’re using it now. And just remember that because what you’re doing right now with that borrowed money, the future you is the one that has to repay that, and repay that with obviously interest and things like that. So debt is the time machine that is very real, and it’s always something to be very mindful about.
Clay: Absolutely. And really all you can really do is just tell people, share those thoughts, and I’m sure we can both remember when we were… We’re both young still. In my mind, I’m still young. But when we were at that age in high school, ah no. It’ll take care of itself. But that’s a great way to put it. It definitely is a time machine, so well said there. This podcast could go on for another… We should test the earbuds, the battery life. You said you got three hours. We should try to test it.
Dan: Yeah, we should push the limits. Yeah. Absolutely. We might be able to move onto personal finance or something.
Clay: Yeah. I don’t know. But it’s like what? 6:00 AM for you now?
Dan: Yeah. 6:10.
Clay: 6:10. I got 3:10 PM Eastern Time here if you’re interested. But final few questions here and then we got to wrap this up. But what is your favorite movie?
Dan: I’ve always been a fan of movies. I’d have to say right now, it’s a tie between two that I’ll… I’m not one to watch a movie once. I’m a one to watch a movie many times. The Big Short and The Founder. Just absolutely love watching them. If I’m sitting around and whether I want to watch something but I don’t want to get too involved in something new, I don’t mind putting either one of them on and just leave it play in the background, play it and watch it. They’re just… just… whether they be inspirational or just, I just find that the stories in those two movies is just excellent.
Clay: I’m with you there, especially on The Founder. That is a great movie. Kind of makes me not want to ever go to McDonald’s again, but still overall definitely a great movie. What about food-wise? What do you like to eat Down Under?
Dan: Well, it’s not Down Under food, but pizza I’d have to say is my favorite. And when it comes to sweets, chocolate. I am a chocoholic. I don’t drink or smoke, but I will absolutely smash some chocolate bars.
Clay: Yeah, you’re a sugarholic then. That’s kind of the camp I sit in too is… no, no need to pass the joint. No need to pass the beer bong. Just pass me some Sour Patch Kids or some doughnuts or something loaded in sugar. That’s what I’ll take, so that’s kind of my philosophy on life-
Dan: That’s right.
Clay: If I’m going out, I don’t want it because of lung cancer, I want it because of diabetes or something like that. And I think we’ll just wrap it up there.
Dan: You do have to be careful.
Clay: Dan, man, you’re good at who you’re supposed to be when you’re supposed to be that person because I was nervous-
Dan: Well, thank you very much.
Clay: … coming into this. This has been a good conversation and I’d like to continue it, but there’s stuff that I got to keep on moving to. But Dan, I really appreciate it. I appreciate you waking up super early down in Australia. I appreciate you sharing your story, and we’d love to have you back at some point just to hear how all this plays out. So does that sound like a plan?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. I’d say so.
Clay: Well, good. I’m glad you’d say so because I’m saying so right now that we need to have you back, and I’m both curious and excited to hear how all this goes. So Dan, thank you again very much.
Dan: No worries. Thank you.
Clay: Now for you listeners out there before we go, if you’re listening on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, please subscribe and especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating, that helps us out, goes a long way, and especially a written review in iTunes really, really helps us out quite a bit and I thank you in advance. I really do appreciate it. If you are listening at ClayTrader.com on the show notes page, on the bottom right-hand area of the screen there’s a live chat box, so you can click on that and you can contact us as far as questions, suggestions, not necessarily about the podcast, but if you have anything in regards to the services that we offer, the courses and all that, then you can reach out to us via that.
But if nothing else, and like I said, you enjoy this, please just give us a nice rating on iTunes, leave us a written comment. That helps us out very, very much. So thank you again, Dan. Thank you again to you as listeners. And we will see you back next week for the next episode.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community including the trading team, premium training, and more, visit ClayTrader.com.