Via Clay Trader

90% of us as traders have been there, in a hole. Whether it was due to letting emotions get the best of us, not knowing what we were doing, or an honest mistake, we’ve stood at the bottom of a hole and knew we needed to now climb out of it. If you can relate to any of these situations, then you’ll find great value and motivation in my discussion with fellow member George (alias in community, “gvigilgem”). Like the vast majority of traders, his journey started on a very bumpy road that eventually lead him downwards and into a hole. It was at that moment George knew he needed to change his ways, so what choices did he make? What actions did he take? We discuss that and a whole lot more (including how he is now well on his way to almost being OUT of the hole). Let’s get to it!


Clay: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, Episode 240.
Announcer: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. This is your host, looking to debate topics such as the Federal Reserve, he’s your guy, ClayTrader.
Clay: Now don’t worry, rest assured my plan here is not to start to debate or start to give my thoughts on the Federal Reserve because I’m well aware that maybe you don’t like to debate topics such as the Federal Reserve, so I will just save that for another discussion. But yeah, I love economics, I love business, I love the whole numbers game of how different dynamics work. Yeah, I’m one of those people that if I hear the word “the Federal Reserve”, my ears pop up and I’m like, “Hey. Wait, did somebody say the Federal Reserve? Hey, I’m willing to have discussion.” Not necessarily a debate. It’s not like I’m out there looking to disagree with people or just even listening. I love that stuff.
Clay: I’m not going to say that that’s a requirement to have any success in trading, to enjoy a good old-fashioned talk, have a little chat about the Federal Reserve, that’s not what I’m saying. But yeah, I just like that stuff, supply, demand, inflation, the law of diminishing return, all that stuff. Yeah, let’s just talk about it. I’ll just leave it at that because I can already see people nodding off and saying, “Come on. Move on with it. This is boring.” Fair enough. No judgements on my part. I realize that this probably is pretty boring to some people.
Clay: We’re going to move on from it and have a great episode here talking with George who is very active in the chat room. I like George, I like George quite a bit, mainly because he just doesn’t care. I mean that in the way of he just tells it how it is and he revealed some things that I’m like, “Wait, what? Wait, you did this and then you waited that long before you … Wait, did you really just admit to that?” He does because he’s like, “Hey, you know what, it is what it is. If … ” We didn’t record this, but afterwards we were talking. He’s like, “Yeah, man. If it can help somebody out, if it can save somebody from doing something stupid, then why not bring it up?”
Clay: I love that attitude because that’s essentially the entire philosophy behind this is, if we can save even just one person or make the light bulb go on for one person, or just even offer up a warning, “Hey, you might want to reconsider. That’s pretty cool. That can happen.” George does give a lot of scenario. Well, not really scenarios, stories that have actually happened to him where if you take what he tells you and you apply that or you heed the warning that’s being given, there’s some good nuggets of wisdom here, for sure, but I don’t want to waste any more time here. Let’s just get to my discussion with George.
Clay: George, welcome to the show.
George: Thanks for having me.
Clay: Now, we had a little technical difficulties, but so far so good. I think we got the issue resolved. I feel like sometimes people don’t really understand all the drama that happens behind the scenes here, but you just witnessed the drama. You’re still breathing, you’re still walking tall. I’m glad to hear that and I am excited to have you here. I was thinking … I’m stumbling over my words because I’m trying to rack my brain and be witty here, but you posted a trade this morning in the chat room and now I can’t quite remember what it was, but I’m going to take a guess here. I think it might have been an Apple trade? Am I remembering that right? Or did I totally just whiff?
George: Nope. Yeah, you’re right.
Clay: All right.
George: It was an Apple trade.
Clay: All right. Last I saw, you were having a good day. Are you still having a good day right now as far as your trading?
George: Yeah, definitely.
Clay: Excellent.
George: Definitely a good day.
Clay: All right, good. Well, we’ll leave that maybe towards the end of things. There’s a little spoiler alert there for your listeners. If you want to hear how this good day came about, it’ll be my goal to try to press George enough to figure out how exactly he created this good day for himself with Apple. But yeah, I’m not going to lie, I’m patting myself on the back. I am proud that the memory is still halfway functioning and it was indeed an Apple trade.
Clay: But before we get all the way there, let’s start at the beginning of your journey. George, so where did all this start for you? Where did you hear about the markets? What sorts of things played out that got you interested enough to the point where you’re like, “You know what, I want to get more hands-on with this”?
George: It actually started a couple of years ago, right around this time, almost to the day. I was working for a biotech company and one of our partner companies, their stock was ridiculously cheap. I was familiar with our partnership with them, and so a couple of my co-workers and I were like, “Hey, we should buy some of this stock. It’s really cheap right now.” I was like, “Oh yeah, it’s a good idea,” so we did.
George: I downloaded Robinhood and threw a couple of hundred bucks in this, it was like a penny stock Tandem back when it was 70 something cents. Then I just had bought it, and I remember waking up the next day and I had made 20 bucks. Then I just thought, “There’s got to be a way that I could do this all the time and just get money from it somehow.”
George: I just started Googling and I started really getting interested. The next thing you know, I had opened up an account, I threw some money in there and I was trading. Not like I trade now. It was a lot different then, but that’s what initially gave me that interest to get into the market.
Clay: Okay, so you worked for a biotech. I’m not trying to get you thrown in jail, but none of this was insider information you were using for your decision, right?
George: No. I just knew that their company was a good company and they had good products. It wasn’t my company directly, it was a different company. Yeah, it wasn’t like I knew something that was happening. We were restricted, at the company that I worked, to only buy stock during certain periods. I couldn’t buy any of our stock unless it was during certain windows where we’re able to actually trade. But this was a different company.
Clay: Okay, and you say, “Well, it was a good company with good products.” I was going to say, “Okay. Well, how did you know how to define good?” But you sort of answered that because if you worked for a biotech company, then obviously that’s your wheelhouse, that’s your area of expertise. That would make sense in how you could look at somebody else and be like, “Oh yeah, they’re doing some good things over there,” and how that lead to that decision.
Clay: My follow-up question would be, how did you stumble across Robinhood? I get the idea of “Hey, they have a good product. Hey, they’re doing some good things, but I want to capitalize off of that.” How did you come from that thought process to all of a sudden actually figuring out Robinhood? You just run a Google search, how to buy stocks? Or how did you ultimately get signed up with Robinhood? Because a lot of newer traders, some of which are probably listening to this, are thinking, “Yeah, I have a similar thing. I’m looking at some external company. I think they’re doing good things. They have good services, good products, and I want to be able to make money from that.” What did you do to be able to connect that bridge? I realize you ended up at Robinhood, but what steps did you take to get there?
George: I actually was just … It was a few of us co-workers that were talking about that stock and I was like, “Yeah, but how do we even buy a stock? How does that work?” Then one of the other gentlemen there was like, “Oh, there’s this app that’s called Robinhood. It’s free and you can use that. You can transfer money in there and you can buy stocks there.” I was like, “Really?” I was like, “That’s so cool.” I went ahead and downloaded it and then I had made my first little investment.
Clay: That’s cool. I think that really illustrates a great point that … I try to bring it up as much as possible, but when you surround yourself with people that … For example, let’s just say George was sitting there, and all his co-workers did all the time was complain, and gripe, and woe is me, and just always complaining. Well, then that’s a nasty situation. Whereas in this situation, I’m not saying not that they never complain, but at least they are having a pret …
Clay: George was surrounded by productive people to the point where he could throw out a question, “Well, how do you even buy a stock?” Then somebody was like, “Hey, you do this.” Now, I’m not saying that any of these people are giving great million-dollar stock tips or anything like that, but there is always a benefit in hanging around people that have gone out there and done stuff, because clearly this gentleman at your work had done some stuff and knew at least to do Robinhood. The thing to your listeners that I’m trying to bring about here is, always question who are you hanging around.
Clay: Or if you’re hanging around with people all the time that are just, they’re complaining about life and they’re never offer any solutions, it’s just more gripes … For example, if George had said, “Well, how do you even buy a stock?” This guy said, “Who cares? The stock market’s rigged against the little guy anyways. You can’t get ahead in life. Why even bother?” If that would’ve been the type of people George was surrounded with, who knows where this journey would’ve taken. But at least this guy went out enough to give things and try, and therefore knew about Robinhood. I sent us off on a tangent there, but I always find it interesting because that was a great source. You didn’t have to Google. You just threw out a question to people that you were surrounded with and you got an answer.
Clay: Now you sign up for Robinhood, you said Tandem was … Is that ticker symbols TNDM?
George: Yeah.
Clay: Okay, that thing … Yeah, that thing was a mover if I remember right, wasn’t it? It made a pretty big move.
George: Yeah. I had bought it before the reverse split, and then it reversed split. I think it went down to two or three bucks, and my average was in the $7 range, because when I had did it, I said, “[inaudible 00:09:58] throw this in here and whatever happens, happens.” I just left it. I had lost 60% of the value, but I was just like, “I’ll just leave it.” Then six months later, it went from $3 all the way to $40-something, and then-
Clay: Yes. That’s right. Yes, that is the one I’m … Okay, yeah. Yup.
George: Yup, and so then-
Clay: It turned around [inaudible] and I’m pulling up the chart here for it. All right. As of right now, it’s at 54 bucks, but it went up and did hit as high as … Wow, it hit as high as seven-
George: Like 70 something.
Clay: Yeah, 70. Basically 75, we’ll call it at its peak. You had an average of … Well, yeah.
George: $7.60 maybe?
Clay: Yeah. Nice, yeah. All right, well that thing was absolutely a monster. Yeah, well done. They were doing good things, they did have a good product. You apparently greatly benefited from it. That’s the goal.
Clay: All right. Well, and you mentioned that after this you saw, “Wow, this is pretty cool how this all works.” Then you said you signed up for an account. Now, I got a little confused there. Are you saying that this was a account different from Robinhood? What account did you sign up for?
George: Yeah, so the first one I did was Robinhood. Then I wanted to get to the day trading and you can’t really do it with Robinhood because it’s not fast enough, you don’t have any tools. I just said, “This isn’t really-”
Clay: Let me cut you off there, very rudely. How did you know that? Did you have a bad experience where you were trying to do something with Robinhood in the day trading perspective, or did you just figure that out, connect the dots? Because a lot of people, they have to learn that lesson the hard way about Robinhood and day trading, and they’re not really created for one in the same. Did you figure that out just through thinking through it critically or did you have a little bit of a painful experience?
George: It was a little bit painful. I bought this one stock and it had went up. It was going up and then I was like, “Well I’m going to sell it right now,” because I was making money. Then basically, I went to go sell it and it wouldn’t let me sell it because it was after-hours trading, and so I got stuck. Then by the next day, when I was able to finally sell it, I was losing money. Then that’s when I was like, “Yeah, I got to figure something else out, because this won’t work.”
Clay: There you go. Listeners, that’s … George, thank you, thank you for your honesty and candidness, but there you go, that could be worth a lot of money to you. Don’t learn the hard way, learn from George. Learn from that experience. Robinhood is not built for some super, super fast day trading or anything like that. You need a much more robust platform.
Clay: Now, if you’re just looking to swing trade, or buy a stock and then sell it next week or within a couple weeks, then that’s fine, that’s a different story. But heed George’s warning. That little story there can save you a whole lot of money. Just trust George that if you’re looking to be some fancy day trader, Robinhood’s not for you.
Clay: My next question though is, you just said, “Well then I wanted to get into day trading.” Where did this whole day trading thing come from? Where did you even learn about day trading? Because it sounds like you went from an investor, “Hey, I want to buy this stock because they have good things going on. Let’s just see what happens,” which is definitely more of an investment philosophy. But all of a sudden you want to become a day trader, so bridge that gap.
George: I had started just YouTubing, stuff and Googling things, and finding out what the different terminology was. I had some stumbled on a page on YouTube. That person was a day trader, so they would upload videos. Then so I would watch them and I was like, “Man, you can just be in and out in no time, and make however much money you’re trying to go for or what you can get.” I was like, “That’s really cool, because I could just maybe do that in the morning before work, for like an hour or something if something’s happened. Then I can just be done with it there.”
George: I was seeing that a lot of these huge profits would come in a matter of minutes, so that was what really drew my interest in its … If I jump in there, I can have the money right away, basically. I thought, “Maybe if I can do this every day, then I could potentially get to the point where I can generate income from it and not have to have a job in the future at some point.”
Clay: Okay, that makes sense. Just once again, the YouTube rabbit hole, and eventually you stumbled on just seeking terminology in general. Then all of a sudden, you’re learning about day trading. You’re certainly not alone in that regard.
Clay: You mentioned signing up for another broker, so who is this broker that you decided to sign up for? That you decided, “You know what, this is who I need to use for day trading.”
George: With my current account, I’m using TD Ameritrade. The main reason why-
Clay: But is that who you signed up with way back when? Was it also TD Ameritrade?
George: No. It was Robinhood and then I went to TD Ameritrade after that.
Clay: Okay, so even way back when, when you signed up for TD Ameritrade, you’ve been with them ever since. Okay, and-
George: Yeah. That was about a year and a couple months ago.
Clay: Right. Okay, cool. Lots of people … You’ve actually had a dull experience from that point of view because lots of people, they sign up for a broker for some reason, but then they’re like, “Oh, wait. This is not actually the broker that would work for what I’m trying to do.” But you’re the exception here in the sense of you signed up for a broker and you’re still with them, even though they were your second broker that you ever signed up with. Usually, it takes people a few more to figure out where exactly they need to be, but … Well done to you in that regard.
Clay: My question, though is, I want to be a day trader. Robinhood’s not working. Hey look, I’m going to sign up for TD Ameritrade. You signed up for them back then, like you said, about a year and a couple of months ago, what exactly was in your mind at that time your game plan? Of course, it was to make money, but what day trading, day trader, what did you think you were going to be? Were you looking to play a certain strategy? I’m using this very loosely, what was your strategy at that point in time? Or what did you think it was?
George: Honestly, I didn’t even really have a strategy. I just thought, “I’m going to look at these stocks and whichever one is going up really fast, I’m just going to buy it. When I start making money, then I’m just going to sell it.” That was my whole thought process.
Clay: I love the honesty and that’s good stuff. For you newer listeners out there, maybe if you’re brand new, before you go and judge, I’m telling you, most people have been there because if you actually stop and think about it, what George just said, it makes sense, “Wow, this stock’s going up. Wow, this stock’s going up very fast. Therefore, if I buy this stock, I will make money because it’s going to keep going up.” That makes logical sense.
Clay: The problem is, the market and trading is not always logical. I don’t know if this is what happened to you, but I’m assuming that strategy maybe worked out. Again, “strategy” used very loosely, but I’ll just ask you, how did that all work out for you?
George: It didn’t work out the greatest, to be honest. It was like … There were times where I would make money. Then there were times where I would lose much, much more and it was really bad. I think I was looking at the stock and just eyeballing how the candlesticks were forming. I didn’t know anything about timeframes or anything like that, I just was looking at the one-minute chart. It was really painful. It lasted for a while. I did definitely lose a substantial amount of money. For those that are listening, it can get pretty bad. Definitely keep that in mind if you’re thinking about just jumping in.
Clay: Yes. Once again, it’s to circle back, your strategy, it does make sense and that’s why … I’m never going to call anybody stupid for what, you just thought that because the stock’s going up and it’s going up quickly that you can just buy. Even maybe me saying that saying, “Well yeah, Clay, that makes perfect sense. If the stock is going up and it’s going up fast, you just buy it.”
Clay: Like I said, just please, trust me, trust George. If only it were that easy. If that was only the actual logic that you needed to apply, because once again, none of us are refuting the fact that doesn’t make sense. It makes really good sense, actually, but it’s not quite that easy. I would assume that the reason why those losses were much bigger than the wins is because you’d get in and the ones that actually worked, well, you’d sell them and you’d take the money. But a lot of those, I’m assuming, you had the price go against you quite a bit and you got to just wait for it to go back up. When it went back up, okay, you sold. But in other situations, well, the price never went back up, did it?
George: It did not. It did not. That was really … It wasn’t fun because I would get in the situation where I’m like, “Okay, I just need to get some time. It’s going to come back.” Then it goes down further, and then I’d end up losing more and I’m like, “Okay, maybe I just need to buy some more down here and then when it finally does come back up, I’ll be doing better than what I was before.” But it didn’t pan out like that almost all of the time where it ended up going the other way. That was tough, for sure.
Clay: I’m also assuming that you were probably playing more the micro-caps, the small-cap. Let’s call it $20 and below type stocks. Were you doing this with the Teslas or the Apples of the world?
George: No. I was just getting the pennies, the small-cap stocks for sure, the micros.
Clay: Okay. What price range was this? Was it literally penny stocks, things below a dollar? Or were you up above a dollar with some of these stocks too?
George: No. Most of the ones that I was doing were at least a dollar, just because I had a hard time when they were less than a dollar. I did try them, but trying to get a order filled, it was a little bit more difficult. I wasn’t able to execute my orders quickly because of the way that the order entry form, like when I was looking at the Level II was moving. It wasn’t worth it. There was so many decimals in between. When it’s moving up or down, I had to scroll and try to catch it to get out, and it just … I was like, “I can’t do that.”
Clay: They move fast. What you just described, and listeners, again, what George just described it’s perfectly, it’s … You would think, “Well, you just buy and sell stocks, and you just buy and sell them quickly.” Yes, I get it. That’s easy to say. It’s easy to say, “You buy and sell stocks quickly.” But in the heat of the moment, saying it is much different than actually doing it because things are moving quick, you have dec … You got to make sure you have the right order forms to be able to get in and out very, very quickly.
Clay: I’m not laughing at you. I’m laughing because I been there. The learning curb and just the little things that you need to keep in mind is it’s … There’s lots of gold nuggets already and we’re only 15 minutes into this whole interview show. George, you’re setting the bar higher. This is some good stuff. Again, I appreciate the candidness.
Clay: Now, where were you actually finding these stocks? I realized that you were finding stocks that were moving up and moving up fast, but were you running scans for these? Were you out on social media? Where exactly, or how were you finding these stocks that you wanted to trade?
George: I was running scans in the morning before the market opened. I would basically look for some of the ones that were moving the highest out of the rest of them. I would just watch them and take trades on those ones.
Clay: Okay. It’s not like you were … Well, that’s good. At least you were doing your scans and you weren’t like, “Well there’s this guy called The Stock God on Stocktwits and he was saying … ” At least you didn’t go down that-
George: I’ve done that too, [crosstalk] though, if we want to go down that path.
Clay: Oh, all right. Well, hey, there you go. I appreciated that. Well, where does that fit into the story then?
George: I was actually just trading on my own. I wasn’t doing terrible. I was doing bad, but I wasn’t terrible. Then I had downloaded this app, Stocktwits, because I was actually … I downloaded it just to see if I can get some kind of a Level II or something. I forgot. I was just checking out what apps that they had, and then I saw Stocktwits come up when I just searched in my iPhone for stocks under the App Store.
George: I got on Stocktwits and then I would read all these different things. People were like, “Hey, this thing’s going to explode, and this, and this and that.” I was like, “Oh, man.” I was like, “These guys know what they’re doing.” I was like, “This is going to happen.” I was like, “I’m going to jump in this thing.” I ended up losing way more money doing that instead of just basically, with the little that I knew, doing my own trades. That went on. It took me a little bit to sort it out, but I then started realizing every single stock that I’d jump in, that somebody’s talking about, it’s got all this stuff going on, I lose money on it. At that point I was like, “I can’t do this anymore. I’m not going to be taking any trades from anything that I see on Stocktwits.”
Clay: Was this all part of that whole time period where you were buying stocks that were moving up fast and therefore you would just buy? Or is this stage two of all of that? Where did that fit into your opening explanation of, “I was just looking for stocks that are moving up and moving fast, and then I would buy”?
George: With those ones, it was more like people were saying, “Oh, you know … ” That was more like an investment almost or like a swing trade, where I’d buy, and then just sit on it, and wait and wait, and wait for it to maybe some day go up.
Clay: You were doing investing and day trading at the same time. Your day trading strategy was, “Hey, this thing is going up fast and it’s going up right now. I’m going to buy.” Then your investing strategy, your swing trading strategy was, “Oh, these people on Stocktwits says this is a great company, so I’m just going to buy and hold.” Is that a fair representation of where you were at this point?
George: Yeah, with a little bit of, “It’s going to explode any day now,” kind this thing. You get that little, “Oh, man. I don’t want to miss this.” But really, you’re not missing much, to be honest. I don’t think I really had one or too many that actually gave anything back. It was more losers.
Clay: Well, you’re certainly not alone. I’m sure that you … A lot of those people that said, “This was going to be awesome, this was going to be great,” when you went to buy, I’m sure you were probably buying some of their shares as they were just camping them out there, right on the offer saying, “Let’s see if we can get anybody to buy.” George bought, but you know what, I bought too. I’m sure I bought from people that were like, “Oh, this thing’s great. Okay, I’m going to go buy.” Then I bought their shares. But it’s almost a rite of passage in some senses.
Clay: Well, how long did all this actually go on? Are we talking weeks here, or are we talking months?
George: We’re talking months. I was bleeding out for several, several months. I had a fairly nice size account and it didn’t take long before it was really shrinking. I won’t say exactly how much, but just so that you know, it was enough to be shocking like, “What just happened? What am I doing?” situation. Something has to change because it’s not working like this.
Clay: Did you have a certain trade or a stock that finally slapped you across the face that said, “Wake up, George”? Or was it, as you just described, you one day just looked at your account and said, “You know, this account used to be at X. Now it’s at Y and Y is much lower than X”? What actually finally did wake you up? Was it a specific trade or was it just a general realization?
George: There were, I think, three specific trades. One of them was ADNT. I hadn’t really shorted. I might have shorted one other time. I was like, “Oh, I’m going to short this thing. It’s been going up. It’s going to move down,” or whatever. Then some news was released with a higher price target and it just … My account was decent size, so I took two thousand shares short on ADNT. I think it was like $20-something at the time. Then it just exploded. That day, it just ran and I was like, “This is unreal.”
George: Then the next day, it started coming back down and I was like, “All right, I’m going to get out of this thing. I’ll be making money soon.” Then the day after that, it just exploded and then I was down a lot. I think it had went up several dollars in a very short period of time. Then I was like, “All right, I still got pretty nice size account. I’ll just regroup.” Then the next one was RBZ, and that one I had bought-
Clay: Oh, that thing was a monster.
George: That one, I made money. I made money on it and then … I think I had made $7,000 on it and I just held it. It started to go down and I’m like, “Oh.” At this point, it’s $40. It went from $11 or $14, and it went up to $40, and then it … I held it, held it, kept going down, down. The next thing you know, I gave it all back and more. Then that one was a punisher. I was like, “Wow, this is a reality check.”
George: Then, I think the last one was ADNT again. It got me twice and I just said … I actually stopped that day and I was like, “This has to change.” The funny thing about it was that I joined the Inner Circle. I was just seeing everybody in there talk, and I was like, “These guys are saying things that I’ve never heard before. It’s like they know what they’re talking about.”
George: I just hung around the chat room for a little bit. Then I had actually joined CTU. I had CTU for two months and I hadn’t even got into it. Then after that last trade, I was like, “All right, I’m going to hit the books.” Then I just started going through CTU and that’s where I’m at right now.
Clay: My question, and I would like to think that a lot of people are probably wondering the same thing, so you got ClayTrader University, and then two months went by and you didn’t really do anything with it. What was your rationale between there? You got something and then … I don’t know. Fill in that little blank for me because it’s not like it’s the price of college tuition, but it’s also not like it’s just a small amount either. How did that all play out?
George: Well with that, I just thought I could figure it out, honestly. I thought, “I’m going to figure this out.” I felt at that point I knew more, and I did, but it still wasn’t enough. It wasn’t enough for me to … Every trade that I took, I was really concerned, I was really worried. I didn’t know where I would end up. I just knew that if I needed to exit, I would just do a market sell and get out.
George: It was one of those things. I had it, I really just hadn’t come to the realization of how important it is to learn. I was like, “What are you doing? You have this course. Get into it.” That was the tipping point there where I just said, “Okay, I need to take this seriously and go through the course.”
Clay: You said, “If I knew I need to get out,” you would just use a market order? Is that what you meant?
George: Yeah. I would just get out any way I could.
Clay: Okay. Now this is a perfect example, and I promise this has not been staged, but this is exactly where trading gets sketchy for a lot of people and [inaudible] sketchy for George. Think about what he’s saying, “Well, if I need to get out, what I learned here is I need to use a market order.” But really, that doesn’t mean anything at all so … Let me ask you this, George, how did you know if you needed to get out?
George: As soon as I was losing money that I wasn’t comfortable with or as soon as I … Yeah, that’s basically what it was. I’d be watching it, things would be all hunky-dory and maybe coasting down. The next thing you know is there’s just a cliff and I’m like, “I’m not in a good situation. I need to get out of this.” That was the logic.
Clay: But this was all before you started the classes, right?
George: Yeah, this happened … Yeah, this happened before that.
Clay: This is the thing as a listener, maybe you’re saying, “Well, yeah. Once you need to get out, that’s definitely good. Just use a market stop and get out.” But you have to really ask yourself, “Okay, but do you actually know when you should be getting out?” You’re saying, “Well yeah, if it goes red.”
Clay: But what happens if I threw this out to you guys as a listener, well, sometimes when something goes red, doesn’t mean you need to get out. Now other times, yeah, you definitely do need to get out, but that’s where you can’t throw around broad statements like, “Well, as soon as I know I need to get out.” You got to dig deeper than that as traders and figure out, “Okay, well how exactly am I defining? What are my rules to tell me when I should be getting out?” Just because something goes red, just because it shows up as, “Uh-oh, I’m losing money right now,” that doesn’t mean you need to get out.
Clay: Now of course, there does reach a point where you do need to get out, but the do’s and don’ts, those are the details that actually matter, so be very, very careful if you’re just telling yourself, “Well, yeah. I know how to trade. If I need to get out, I’ll use a market stop.” Okay, press those questions further. Like George said, he was just like, “Well, okay. It went up and it’s going down.” Is it fair to say, George, that in all, in hindsight now, you really had no idea when you should actually have gotten out? Because as I know you now know, just because something goes red, that doesn’t mean you need to get out. But at the time, you didn’t really understand how to actually define that, right?
George: No, I had absolutely no idea. Now, when I actually look back at it, I’m like, “You were walking a really, really thin line, man.” I just can’t believe the things that I was doing, like the risks, that I didn’t even know were risks and how large they were, I was taking to get a couple of bucks here and there. I literally was just watching as it’s going up or going down. I didn’t know anything else but that.
George: Obviously now, looking back at, I see how much more that there is to it. Like you said, yeah, you don’t always need to get out when you’re losing. There’s a lot of different things that you can look at that will let you know how much you can potentially lose before you get back into a profitable position in the trade, and what you know that you’re going to lose, and at a certain point, your losses can become much greater. You need to get out in a educated way and manner.
Clay: Exactly. I realize that … Oh, come on Clay. Come on, George. You’re just talking in such a general manner. Well, it is general because all these situations are unique in it of themselves. All strategies, all styles have different criterias to define when you should get out. When it make sense to get out? When it would be dumb to get out? There’s no way we could sit here and go through every little situation. That’s just why you have to actually learn. George said, there’s just more that goes into it rather than lying to yourself and saying, “Well, when I need to get out, I’m going to use a market stop.” Yeah, that’s good. You know what a stop loss order is. That’s good, you know what a market stop loss order is. But there’s still, again quote George, “There’s more to it than that.”
Clay: Let’s backpedal a little bit. Great rabbit hole there, by the way. You were like, “All right. I paid for these classes. Its been two months. I need to actually go and get into them.” When you did that, did you pause your trading? I guess, walk us through your educational journey, how you approach all that. Some people trade very small. Some people just go cold turkey and like, “No, I’m done trading.” What did your educational path look like after you made the determination, “You know what, I bought this, I need to go through it.”
George: Yeah, I actually … It was just that one day where I took a really big loss and then I said, “You know what … ” I knew that I had the course and I said, “I really need to do this.” It was actually … It was shocking to me, what had happened on that loss, to where I just totally stopped and I said, “I need to stop this.” Then that’s when I started going through the courses.
George: It wasn’t really until about a month after. Here and there, I’d take a couple tiny positions as I was learning what I was learning through the courses just to see how things would pan out. I think after that month, it took like a month or month and a half until things really became clear. Now, it’s literally, in just the last couple weeks, and this started, I started maybe a couple months ago, maybe more, trying to get through the course, that I’ve really seen a complete change in my trading performance, and accuracy and things like that. Yeah, I don’t know if I answered the question exactly.
Clay: You did, yeah. No, you for sure did. Again, lets see. I’m going to try to test myself here. I believe it was not only an Apple trade but it was an Apple options trade, is that right?
George: Today’s trade was an Apple trade.
Clay: Just the stock, not options?
George: Yeah. Just the stock.
Clay: Aw, crap.
George: But I did take, first, a couple options trades that were actually both winners and that was really fun. Tiny one of them was $10, which is nothing. The other one was, I think was a $120-something.
Clay: Careful, careful, George. I got to cut you off, $10 is nothing. Let me ask you this, was the $10 generated with good habits and disciplined trading, or bad habits?
George: Good habits.
Clay: Well there you go. Then that’s-
George: There was a plan in place.
Clay: It’d be 10 time worse if you made $1,000 with bad habits because I feel like you already experienced that journey where yeah, you can make $1,000 with bad habits, but those habits will eventually bite you for a loss way more than $1,000. Would you agree with that from your experience?
George: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Clay: Be very careful it was only $10. Look at it as, it was $10, but with good habits, but with discipline, but with following my rules because that’s what you want. Because it could’ve been $500, but with bad habits and who cares about that. All right. Well, $10. I need to get my frame of reference. You did trade some options today?
George: That was yesterday, I believe.
Clay: Okay, all right. I guess where I was trying to go with all this, and we’ll get back to this, but where did options come into the picture? It’s just something that you learn about outside of the courses? Or did you stumble across options as you went through the university and you saw those option courses? I guess plug in a place, because up until this point it’s just been all about get the stock, and the stock, and the stocks. How and where did options come to the picture for you?
George: The options came into the picture through the options course on CTU. I had heard about them before. I would hear people in the Inner Circle talking about it. I would see that they were taking a relatively small amount of capital and they were able to make almost the same amount, like almost 100%. To me, that was really interesting to me because some of the positions that I had taken were a pretty big amount of money for not much profit. I thought, “Well, this is nice because now I can take a position that requires less of my capital, that will free up some money for maybe another trade or two that is looking like it’s going to work out. Then that way I’m not just tied up with all of my money in one or two trades. Now I can have maybe three or four. Really, if I wanted to, I could have 10 options trades going at the same time.” I just thought that the percentage gains were really interesting. I wanted to be a part of that and take advantage.
George: And the flexibility that you have with options as well. It really is just fascinating to me, so I said, “You know what, I’m going to give this a shot too.” I went through the options standard course. Then I’m also almost done, a little over half way through with the advanced course, which is a pretty awesome, pretty huge boost from the first course where I was like, “Wow, there’s so much more that you can do with it.” That was pretty awesome. That’s what got me into options.
Clay: Okay. Well, you stole my thunder there about what caught your eye, because from what I’ve extrapolated, you have a good sizable account. It sounds like if you wanted to, you could just stay with trading stocks straight up. I was gonna ask you, so what actually drew your attention to options, but you beautifully explained that. You liked those percentages, you liked how much less capital it would be required, and how much more flexible you could be. You answered that for me.
Clay: But yeah, they really are awesome, as I’m sure you can relate. It’s crazy how the first options course, that’s more of day trading them and all that, which is crazy enough in it of itself. But then you get to the advanced and you’re like, “Holy smokes. There’s even that much more you can do with these things called options.”
George: Yeah, it was pretty great.
Clay: Yeah it is pretty … Awesome is a great word for it because the amount of flexibility that they give you truly is pretty crazy. But for just quick disclosure sake, options will punch you in the face, eat your lunch, and then laugh at you if you go into them blindly. As listeners out there, they’ll be like, “Hey, I listen to this podcast and these guys said options were awesome, so I’m opening up an options account and I’m going to start next week.” Be very careful. I would love for you to take my options course, but if you want to go and do something else, that’s fine too. But please, be warned. Options … Would you agree, George? They will gladly hit you in the face with a baseball bat if you don’t treat them with respect.
George: Absolutely. I guess, we’re on that right now, I see them and it’s still a challenge to put yourself in a place where you’re going to be profitable, depending on a couple different things. But not knowing what, as far as what I know now, I think it can be a very slippery and dangerous slope because of just you owing somebody a certain amount of shares at a certain price that you may not even have. What can happen if those things go south is just … Definitely, definitely need to learn about them, take the course, and know what you’re doing, what everything means because yeah, I absolutely agree, it can make it or break it.
Clay: I will nitpick and disagree. You said, “I think it can be a slippery slope with everything that I am learning.” The correction, it is a slippery slope. There is no think about it. It is guaranteed to be a slippery slope that you will slip on, eventually. Just be warned, because I get it right now, we’re talking about options and how great they are. They are great, but this is all under the umbrella of really studying, and having a structured game plan and a structured strategy to take advantage of the awesomeness.
Clay: You heard about the options. Looking at the time, yeah. Right now, it sounds like you’re doing both. If yesterday you were trading options and then today you were doing stocks, so my question would be, what determines what you’re going to be doing? Meaning, yesterday you chose to do options and then today you chose to do stock on Apple. What is the criteria that would help dictate how you want to approach a trade from whether or not you want to use the vehicle of options or the stock itself?
George: It depends on what my game plan is. For example, with JP Morgan, I wanted to short it, but I knew that it may take some time for it to do what I wanted, and there was a good entry point for me. But in order for me to really hit my target, it would take so many days. There was another trade that looked really good to me and it required some capital, because I had a few different ones going on, and I was like, “Well I don’t want to get out of this trade and then go into this other one that’s going to take me several days to get what I need out of it.”
George: I was like, “You know what, I’m going to go ahead and take a look at the options chain and maybe buy a put on this one, and I have plenty of time from my analysis, my technical analysis, to do that with a small amount of capital that I’d still be able to get a piece of that action on JP Morgan, and then also keep my other profitable trades exactly where they’re at.” That really was how I played that one and there’s probably a lot of different ways, but that was my thought process behind it.
Clay: It’s pretty much a money management type thing. Because you had a certain event going on with a allotment of money, in order to take advantage of another part in the market, because you had some of that money tied up there, you decided to go about it another way. Is that a fair summary, is a lot of this has to do with just your money management and how certain positions are going to dictate how other positions are going to work? Is that fair?
George: Absolutely. Yup, definitely.
Clay: Great, awesome. All right. Well, how have things been going for you since you went live? Like I said, I’ve been seeing you in the chatroom. It’s not like you just post winners. You’ve had losses too, but your losses have been controlled, they’ve been great. How has your trading been going since you, not necessarily went … Well, I’ll put it this way, since you’ve gone live after going through the ClayTrader University stuff?
George: It’s been going really good. It’s actually fantastic. I have never had so many winners. Really trading the last six months is what I’ve really been focusing on it. That’s my time frame. Everything before that was just messing around, I can call it now. But definitely-
Clay: Gambling. Can you call it gambling, pretty much, in hindsight?
George: I could call it gambling.
Clay: We all start off as gamblers.
George: I’m not a gambler.
Clay: Neither am I, yet if you’re honest with yourself and after you’re equipped with knowledge, when you look back at the former yourself, you’re like, “Yup. That was idiotic gambling.” But the goal here is to admit that you’re being an idiot gambler, because as soon as you admit that, then you can correct it like George has done. Things have been going very well. Good to hear that.
Clay: Now, don’t get me wrong, I love to hear that you’re having a bunch of winners, but I don’t necessarily care about your winners. Have you had any losers?
George: Yeah, there’s losers.
Clay: My question would be, how are those losses? Are those losses wiping away all your wins? Or let’s talk losses. How did those losses affect all those winners that you’ve been talking about?
George: They actually aren’t doing … My losses are much smaller than my winners.
Clay: Good, good.
George: I’ve had, I think probably 13 trades in the last couple of weeks. I think nine of them were winners and a few of them were losers. I had winners that were $500, $600, $300, 100 bucks, 80 bucks. Then my losers were, I think, one of them was a biotech just dropped out of nowhere, so it’s not a lot I could do, but that was a bigger one. It was like $100.
Clay: I thought you were gonna say like, “Oh, that was like $800, it really bit me,” but oh, $100, if that’s a really big one. George, all right, keep going. This is good stuff.
George: Yeah, so one’s $103, one of them is $52, and the other one, I’m pulling it up now, is $67.50. We’ll just say for today with my current situation, I’m probably down maybe 220 bucks or $230, but my winners are about $800 and change maybe. My winners are still much greater and then I’ve also, aside from that one that I slipped and didn’t set my stop, the other ones are relatively small, so they’re very, very much controlled and the damage is contained if it should come to that. Definitely, definitely much smaller losers than winners. They’re very profitable ones that I have been hitting.
Clay: Now, I’m probably just an idiot, so I’m asking for clarification for myself here, but do you have open positions right now?
George: Yeah.
Clay: Okay, so the current open positions right now, you’re saying, of the losses of those open positions is you’re down to right around $220, but of the open positions and gains, you’re up currently $800. Did I under …
George: Yup. Right around there.
Clay: Net, you’re up $600, right now, of open positions, give or take.
George: Yeah.
Clay: Awesome, all right. Well, that’s good stuff.
Clay: Followup question [inaudible] when you do take those losses, mentally speaking, how does that affect you? Do you get down, do you get angry, do you want to go revenge trade? Because that’s a big talking point here because losses, and human psychology, and being traders, because of course, we all want to be right. Nobody wants to admit you’re wrong, especially when being wrong means you’ve lost money. How are you doing? How do you deal with the losses when you do have to take them from the psychological point of view?
George: Right now, because what I’ve learned in the course, I don’t really get too down about it because I just know that I have to take that loss. Also, if I don’t take the loss right now and I decide to do anything other than whatever I had already planned, that I probably am going to lose a lot more than this, so I find a little bit of comfort knowing that you’re doing the right thing, you need to get out.
George: It’s like, “That’s a bummer,” but then I just focus on how my winners are looking and seeing the improvement. It’s unfortunate, but I think now I am in a place where I understand that those things happen, or that they happen. It’s just the way it is, and just keep moving along. The winning trades will keep coming as long as I don’t allow my losers to take away my profits from my winners.
Clay: Well said. Maybe you already do this, but if not, I’ll just throw a suggestion at your way. I’m like this too. Because you have stupidity in your past, you can now use that as a benefit where you can be like, “Hey, George. Remember the last time you broke rules?” At that point, you didn’t really have rules, but remember the last time you got stupid and how that big loss happened? Hey, let’s not do that. Let’s just keep the loss small.
Clay: Like I said, maybe you already reflect back on your past stupid experiences, but if you don’t, that probably would be that much more ammunition for yourself to really fight off any sort of those voices that show up. Because that is one thing I’m grateful for, at least for me. I don’t know if it works for everybody, but if you do have dumb things that you’ve done in the past, use those right now to be like, “Hey, remember when … ” Then fill in the blank with the stupidity and that can really help you kick those voices to the curb. Do you ever do that?
George: Oh yeah.
Clay: Okay, good. You’re already using your pa …
George: I do that all the time.
Clay: Good. Yeah. Who knew?
George: Yeah, I tell myself, “This is what you did on this other one. How’d that work out for you?”
Clay: You know what, that’s a great sticky. I could see a sticky on your computer just saying, “How’d that work out for you, George?” Or, “How’d that work out for you, (insert your name)?” That’s actually good. How’d that work out for you? I don’t know. That might be it.
George: Do we need a ClayTrader T-shirt?
Clay: That’s pretty good from [inaudible 00:52:09]. I could see that maybe being the title of the podcast. I’m not going to commit to it, but how’d that work out for you? Then leave that as the title.
George: Sure.
Clay: That might be a good title for this podcast. That’s a great way of looking at it, is just simply questioning for yourself, how’d that work out for you when you did that? I like that quite a bit.
Clay: Now as far as … I’m assuming that you’re using all technicals and charts for your trading setups, or are you using fundamentals or anything like that?
George: I’m using all technical analysis. Every now and then I’ll take a trade on all technical analysis base because at this point it’s what makes me feel the most comfortable and I’m most secure in that, because there is so many different things that I’m seeing that paint such a better picture of what to expect, what can happen, and so on and so forth. Everything is based off of technical analysis. Every now and then when a trade is going in my favor, and then some news comes out that pushes it further in my favor, then that’s just the cherry on the top.
Clay: I like it. I like it. That’s how I view it too, is if there’s some sort of crazy dynamic that happens, well then hey, I’ll just steal your phrase, that is definitely a cherry on top.
Clay: For all these open positions right now, what is going to dictate when you get out? Obviously, if they are options, then there’s going to be that expiration date, but are you just waiting to get stopped out of all these positions now? When are you going to be closing any of those positions? Are you somebody that would carry them over the weekend? How does all that work? We’ll just, like you said, we’ll use your current situation right now. You have $200 in losses approximately, $800 in approximately gains. When do you finally realize the losses and the gains?
George: Well, right now, we’ll just take Apple for example. Basically it hit my target, so I’ve sold half of my position literally while we’re having this conversation. I’m leaving the rest, and I will be monitoring and updating an exit point for that remainder based on what I get the next day, and maybe the next day after that. It’s already set, planned out. That’s how I’m just managing my risk and trying to maximize my profits [inaudible] some more.
Clay: Well, I must say, I’m quite impressed that you’re sitting here trading while we do an interview, because it’s like you’re a seasoned pro where you get interviewed all the time. Yeah, well done. Making money, talking to me at the same time. I had no idea. I would have never guessed that you’re actually putting on trades, or I should say closing out of trades and managing trades as we play out. Well done.
Clay: Now, I want to respect your privacy so you can tell someone to kick rocks and no offense will be taken, but approximately when you decided to get … Like you said, you got serious six months ago, whenever that was. You went through the ClayTrader University. Did you start with a certain amount in your account?
Clay: I guess what I’m trying to get at is how much have you grown your account. Like I said, you don’t have to answer any of this. I do want to respect your privacy as much as possible, but just to … You’re saying things are going great and all of that, but is there any numbers you could assign to maybe give a little bit more context?
George: Yeah. I have probably … Okay, I’ll say this. From where I’m at right now in my account, I was down over $2500 two weeks ago. In a couple of weeks, I was able to make $2500 with my new strategies and everything that I learned in the course. My account has definitely started heading back in the right direction. I am not really anywhere near getting back to what I had at this point yet, but I really feel confident that I should be there for sure, I think, by the end of the year.
Clay: Just so I understand, you are in a hole, and then you finished the education, you finished the classes. Then since that point, with the classes and everything you’ve learned, and the strategy and all that, you’ve dug yourself out of the hole in the amount of $2500. That sounds like it’s still trending upwards. Am I understanding that right?
George: Yup. Yup, definitely.
Clay: Okay, cool. Well, congratulations and keep on going. It’s been fun to see you post things and it’s, “I’m only down this amount now. Hey, now I’m only down this amount.” It’s been fun watching knowledge dig you out of the hole. You’re doing well now.
Clay: Final question here, well, almost final question, but if I was sitting next to you, George, and I was like, “Hey, man. Let me see your screen,” and you were to show me your charts and all that, what would I see on your chart? What indicators do you use? I guess I’ll just leave it at that. What sort of indicators, what does your chart look like that you are using?
George: I use several different timeframes. For my chart, I have my volume, I’ve got my Bollinger Bands, I’ve got my 50 MA, I’ve got my 200 MA, and I’ve got my eight-day as well. I’m using RSI, Stochastic RSI, MACD, and my Money Flow Index indicator, along with watching my time in sales and the Level II.
Clay: Nice. You have a nice strategy. Do you ever feel that you’re getting overwhelmed, or you feel comfortable with all the pieces in place?
George: No, I feel comfortable. I definitely feel comfortable. Absolutely, yeah. It’s been eye-opening, and it’s been great, actually.
Clay: Excellent. Well, good. That’s what matters is some people, I look at their charts, I’m like, “Wow, that’s a lot of indicators.” People are like, “I feel good about it.” In fact, Dan in the chatroom, who I’m sure you’ve seen, sometimes he posts his stuff and it’s like, “Man, Dan. That stuff would give me a seizure.” But Dan’s like, “Well, I don’t even notice it. Really, I’m so used to it.” I’m like, “You know what, and that’s what matters.” There is a right and wrong way to trade from a general perspective, but then when you get down to what indicators are you using, what combination of indicators, at the end of the day, whatever you feel comfortable with. I’m glad that’s the status that you’re at.
Clay: Well, as we wrap things up here, we’re going on an hour here. Final few questions. But if I were to lend you a time machine, and you could take this time machine, and go back to the start and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
George: Get an education. I’d go right back to that first trade that I ever took and I’d be like, “Look, enroll and get some education.” If I would have known about CTU back then, I probably would have done it when I was really at the beginning stages of me learning because I did so much research, but I didn’t know that much, that there was a course like this. It’s not something that you learned in school. It’s this outside type of job that nobody that I really know, knows anything about it, so I didn’t know that at the time really, if there was a course like that, and that would cover everything, like the day trading, like options, forex. I haven’t even really gotten into all of that. I’ve gotten into the stuff that I’m looking at, but absolutely, definitely be get an education.
Clay: Okay. Good, good. I know there’s lots of other things, but as always, looking at multiple strategies, that’s all good, and fine and dandy, but some times it’s a question of if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. As of right now, I’d say just keep on pressing. Don’t let any sort of shiny object show up and pull you off target because right now, what you’re doing is working, so just stick with that. Not saying that you were going to go off the pathway, but don’t let like, “Oh, look at that. I’m going to go try … ” Just stick with what works.
Clay: All right, well now I have some fun questions for you.
George: Sure.
Clay: George, what is your favorite movie?
George: My favorite movie is Cloud Atlas.
Clay: I’ve never seen it. That came out within the past five years, hasn’t it?
George: Or it was 10 years ago. Something like that.
Clay: Oh, was it?
George: Something like that.
Clay: All right, well then I must be thinking about something … Who’s in it?
George: Yeah, it was a while ago. It never really made it to the theater for some reason, but it’s Tom Hanks, Halle Berry, Susan Sarandon.
Clay: Oh, yeah.
George: That guys from Mickey Blue Eyes, I forgot his name. But there’s a lot of really good actors in there. It’s a different kind of movie. I think people who really would watch, but if they were to watch it, it’s really interesting.
Clay: Okay, I’ll have to … Yeah, you always wonder about those for whatever reason. Especially that’s really where all those big name actors, and it didn’t really do anything in theaters. Anyways, that’s a whole nother talking point.
Clay: What about food? Well, where are you at, George, geographically?
George: I am in Arizona.
Clay: Oh, nice.
George: Right in Tempe.
Clay: Nice, nice. It’s like 400 degrees there right now.
George: Actually we just got past the 400, now it’s more like 200, so we’re doing good.
Clay: Oh, good. Downtrend, that’s good. That’s good. I’ve heard Tempe is beautiful though. What is that, that’s where the Fiesta Bowl is every year, as far as college football. I don’t know if you’re a college football fan or not, but that’s how I know Tempe, Arizona is. It’s, from my understanding, very nice out there.
Clay: What do you like to eat? What’s your favorite food out in Tempe, Arizona, or just really anywhere, food wise?
George: You know what, there is a really great Thai place that I go to right by my house. There’s a great Indian food place and Italian place. Those are pretty much my favorite foods. I’ll just grab some Thai, which I’ll probably do today. There’s actually a lot of good food out here. I’m originally from San Diego, and San Diego’s got really good food. My job sent me out here when I was working for them a couple of years ago, but Tempe’s got really good food, for sure.
Clay: Nice. Well as soon as I heard Thai food, I’m like, “I’m in.” I’m all for Thai. Give me some curry, give me some pad Thai. But once again, I don’t want to take this –
George: Oh, yeah. Let me know when you’re in town.
Clay: I will definitely take you … Always got to be careful when people make me offers. I’m like, I am that guy that’ll be like, “Hey, remember that once time when you said … ” It’s like, “Oh, great. Yeah.” If I’m ever in Tempe, I now know that I have a “tour guide” for the hot spots out there.
Clay: Then final questions, what do you like to do hobby wise? What do you enjoy outside of trading?
George: I like photography and I’m a motorsports fan, so I like to go out on the track every now and then here, go on some curvy mountain roads or whatever, just driving my car. That’s mostly what I like to do. It’s photography and driving, motorsports, and obviously trading now, which is getting even … I’m really starting to enjoy it a lot more than I ever had, which is great. Yeah, those are basically the main ones for me.
George: I’m a foodie, so I like to eat at all kinds of different places. That’s a hobby for me as well, finding new spots.
Clay: Awesome. That’s something I’m trying to improve in. I’m a big chain guy, like, “Oh, The Cheesecake Factory.” I will always love The Cheesecake Factory, but as my wife, she’ll be like, “Well, let’s go to a little hole in the wall over there.” I’m trying to adapt the whole philosophy of, “Let’s explore, let’s see what other food places are out there.” You would be a good guy then, because you could show me all the cool spots then, because I like to eat too. But again, we won’t derail this too much.
Clay: Final question, three words, what would these three words be that you would associate with what you think or what you have discovered it takes to be a successful trader?
George: I would say 100% discipline, for sure. That to me really what it is. Let me see if I can think of anything else here. I would say emotional control, emotional intelligence for sure when it comes to trades. I would say taking your time. Don’t rush into anything. Not rushing, basically. I don’t know, that’s two words, but yeah.
Clay: You gave three ideas, so we’ll let it pass. I know exactly what you mean. Those are definitely good ideas that certainly do pertain. Yeah, I definitely can’t nitpick because yeah, that’s exactly how it all works and what you need to be aware of.
Clay: Well, George, I appreciate you being here. I know at the beginning you mentioned you were a little nervous at the start, but I will assure you that you did not sound like you were nervous at all. Heck, like you said, you were managing trades during the podcast. Well done, I appreciate you being here. Would love to have you back as a guest at some point, especially so we can see just how far out of this hole you have climbed. Will you come back at some point?
George: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let me know and I’ll be happy to come back on. I appreciate you having me. It’s been great.
Clay: Yeah, no. This has been … Like I said, for listeners out there, please, I’m telling you what George has shared through his experiences, it’s very real. It’s not like some sort of freak accident that’s unique to George. A lot what he described and said is fair game for everybody, George, which sounds bad, but George is not really unique in any of those ways. It’s happened to many of us and it will happen to you. If you heed his warnings, if you heed the stories that he’s talked about, you’ll definitely get some value out of this for sure. George, thank you again. I’m glad to hear that you’ll be back.
Clay: But for you listeners out there, a final few things. First off, if you are listening at iTunes or any of the other podcast players, make sure to subscribe. Especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating, or better yet a written review on iTunes, that really helps us out. It just gets the word out there that much more, so we’d really would appreciate it.
Clay: Then if you’re listening at on the Show Notes page, there is a little live chat box in the bottom right-hand portion of the screen. Please feel free to reach out. Let us know, “Hey, I was listening to the podcast.” Questions, comments, suggestions, all that I’d love to hear from people that were listening on the podcast. It’s always interesting to just hear from people that have listened to these different episodes. I would love to hear from you and answer any questions, or what have you, that you may have.
Clay: Thank you again to George, thank you again to listeners, and we will see you all back next week.
Announcer: This has been The Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit

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