Via Clay Trader

One of the most dreaded rules in all of the markets: the pattern day trader rule (“PDT”). A classic example of government regulations thinking they are helping but in all actuality, creating a massive hassle for people. It is what it is, but there is some good news when it comes to this common issue. We welcome back “Reboot” (chatroom alias) to update us on his journey. A large part of his new journey has been escaping and working around the PDT rule. He takes us through all the adjustments and realizations he has made in order to place himself on a pathway to profitability that works for his account size, personal time schedule and overall goals. If you are someone who has a smaller trading account, then there will for sure be some nuggets of wisdom you will walk away with, so let’s get to it!


Clay: This is a Stock Trading Reality Podcast, episode 235.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired, and stay motivated by every day normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success, and this is your host, he wants you to control your emotions. Here’s why. Clay Trader.
Clay: Now for you longer time listeners of the podcast, you probably know exactly, in a roundabout way, why I believe you should control your emotions because that is definitely the key to success. But key to success, I want to kind of pull that back a little bit as a layer, and quickly just kind of dive into what do I mean by key to success? Well, when you can control your emotions, you are able to benefit from those that cannot control their emotions. You are able to, I mean in a kind of brutal, and a kind of savage type of way, you are able to take money from those that cannot control your emotions. I mean, have you ever been there? I know I have. Where you let your emotions get out of control. You do something stupid. Think about that though. When you do something stupid, what is that doing for somebody else in the market that is controlling their emotions?
Clay: Well, you’re either giving them a great entry point, you’re giving them a great exit point, you are helping them out, because they are controlling their emotions. They are benefiting from you not controlling your emotions. So that’s why I’m all about you got to trade without emotions, or in other words, you have to control your emotions because yeah, when you control your emotions, there are always people out there who are not controlling their emotions, and that’s going to allow you to benefit. And like I said, take advantage of them and I… That sounds bad, but I don’t feel bad about it because you have a choice.
Clay: You can either take advantage or be taken advantage of. You can either learn how to trade, or you can just kind of go out there and make it up as you go, and making it up as you go, experimenting, trial and error, whatever you want to call it, if you’re trying to sugarcoat it to yourself, at the end of the day, you’re just opening yourself up to be taken advantage of from those that are controlling their emotions. So I mean, it’s up to you. But yeah, that’s why I want you to control your emotions, because, at the core, as bad as a mean, as grumpy as it may sound. Yeah. It’s going to allow you to take advantage of those, and take advantage of opportunities from those that, people are going to give you that or not controlling your emotions.
Clay: But again, that sounds bad, but remember, it’s not like anyone is forcing you to get into the markets and not control your emotions. You have the choice to control them. You have the choice to build a strategy, and a system that works for you and allows you to control your emotions. So, the choices on the table for you to make. Now, as for our guest today, I really had a good time and this was the second time he has been on the show. As a quick little disclosure, it gets off to a little bit of a slow start just because I make a total fool of myself. I flat out call him the wrong name, and it’s not even close.
Clay: So we kind of go back and forth, but I promised you and only last for a couple of minutes, so your patience is appreciated as we break the ice, and as I make a fool of myself. Our guest today is Reboot. That is his alias in the chat room. And that’s what I mainly refer to him as because he is a very active member of the community. He’s in the chat room all the time. So I’ve just kind of equated his name with Reboot. His actual name and what I call him is Evans. But yes, the whole name thing gets a little bit sticky, but, Evans Reboot, he has been around now for well over a year as part of the community, and that’s basically the amount of time he’s been trading.
Clay: And the last time he left off on the previous episode, he was still paper trading. He was still kind of going through the courses. But he has made a whole lot of strides, since then, he’s now trading with real money. He’s doing well. I’m granted, he’s still scaling up. But he does, he brings up many points that he’s learned and come across, and reminders of things that he has learned and things that he has done over the past year. So there’s lots of great nuggets here of wisdom based on experience. So one of those, there is no theory here. There is just facts and facts are things that he’s going through, he’s admitting to, and that, are not necessarily new things that we’ve never heard of, but as always, great reminders of things that you needed to keep focused on in your trading.
Clay: So let’s get to it with Reboot and his journey. Welcome back Reboot.
Reboot: Well, thank you for having me back, Clay.
Clay: I’ll be honest, I don’t quite remember what you said was okay for me to call you back on your previous webinar. So can I, do you want me to call your Reboot? Do you want me to call you Jerry? What would you best respond to?
Reboot: I don’t remember what we did last time either, and I had hoped I would have had time to go and re listen to the podcast. You can call me Evans if you want. Reboot, sometimes is, it’s adjective or a verb, I mean, so it’s really sound like a… doesn’t sound like a person’s name.
Clay: You’re right. But I mean I’m just so used to Reboot, and the chat room, but-
Reboot: Call me Reboot.
Clay: But you’re right, that’s a valid point.
Reboot: Or Boot, or call me Boot. Everybody in the chat room call me Boot.
Clay: Boot. I don’t know. That doesn’t fit. Can I just call you Jerry? Will you respond to Jerry?
Reboot: I’m not Jarry though.
Clay: Jerry with the Y.
Reboot: But that’s not my name though.
Clay: It’s not?
Reboot: No.
Clay: Yeah, it is. I don’t want to say your full, I’d probably be like.
Reboot: You probably saw Joseph.
Clay: No. Maybe it wasn’t, I just [inaudible] okay. So I can’t. [crosstalk] I’ll call you.
Reboot: I go by my middle name which is Evans, which is fine.
Clay: All right. I’ll go with Evans. For all of you listeners that ever doubted that this is like some sort of scripted thing. I assure you even if we tried, we could not have scripted that. I mean-
Reboot: I know.
Clay: I literally just called Reboot, who’s been on the show… And I just called him Reboot. I just called Evans. Listen listeners, it’s going to be Evans, it’s going to be Reboot. I’m going to do my best. But people like Evans really kind of throw me off because, they’re active in the chat room. They’re a valuable asset to the chat room. So I pay attention, and I just see Reboot all the time. And, but for listeners out there, like I said, Reboot and Evans, they’re one of the same. So, with that being said, I think.
Reboot: Yeah, the listeners are like, all right guys, get on with it.
Clay: Yeah. I don’t get on with the pod. We just had to have a little bit of fun here. But when was your, I want to say right around a year ago, wasn’t it? [crosstalk] Do you remember what episode? Like you were last on?
Reboot: I remember the episode because when you asked me in the chat room, I think I answered 247 and you looked it up and said, you’re right. I was surprised that I remembered the number. I don’t remember the exact timeframe, but I think it was in the June or July timeframe.
Clay: Okay. So we got you. For a little bit more context.
Reboot: Sort of year.
Clay: Yeah. So for listeners context, whenever I bring somebody back, the general timeframe is right around a year and that’s… When you stop and think about a year, that’s 12 months. That’s 365 days. I mean, that’s a quite a bit of time. Now, do you remember where we left off, give or take a little bit?
Reboot: Well, I was still-
Clay: In terms of where were you at.
Reboot: I was still relatively new and I was kind of surprised you had me on early, but I guess I was no pretty active in the chat room, and you wanted to get my story out there. So we had talked more about my history where I had always been more of an investor type, and I wasn’t a huge investor in the market, but I’d never really done any real trading until I came across you and your courses. And so since then I have been actually what I consider a real trader. I get in and out of stocks and options, within a day or within a few days.
Reboot: Occasionally I might hold for a couple of weeks. So, I was still new in the process. I hadn’t even completed all the courses when we talked, and I was doing a mix of paper trading and I think I’d already done some live trading, which you kind of cautioned me over, rightfully so. But that’s kind of what I recall.
Clay: Okay. And if I also remember, and I’m, this could be totally wrong. I feel like one of your struggles that we had identified or maybe that you, not necessarily a struggle, but something that you needed to be aware of is because of your backstory, and what brought you to the market of being always an investor. You had almost like a mental block of, I mean if you get into something then you got to hold for like a long amount of time because I mean that’s what you do in the market, and this is all come from, like you said, just having been involved in the market for a long time, but from the investing side of things, does that ring a bell at all or am I just totally making that up?
Reboot: It very much rings a bell. In fact, I think our title might’ve had something to do with that. Fighting the demons or-
Clay: Well< I’m just-
Reboot: We’re not prepared for this. Let me-
Clay: We are prepared.
Reboot: I’m actually now curious. I’m going to pull this up while we’re chatting and see if I can find it.
Clay: But I’m proud of myself that I remembered that. But that’s the thing with these welcome back. We don’t need to be prepared. If we’re prepared then I mean-
Reboot: They’re ungenuine.
Clay: Then it’s not genuine, and we want this to be like people are just hanging out with us as we’re sitting down grabbing some coffee or whatever your drink of choice is. So I mean you ended with that mindset. So I guess my first question to you, and I’ll have to play dumb in some of these areas, because again, Evans is very active in the chat room and he’s always in there.
Clay: So I’ve seen how things unfolded. So full disclosure, I am playing stupid and a little these regards.
Reboot: Sure.
Clay: But I mean, how did things kind of go after that podcast, you know what I mean? You had left there saying, all right, I’ve got to break out of this mindset of like long term type stuff. So where did you go from that point? Because like you said, you still hadn’t even been through all the courses. So really just, I mean kind of fill people in. What happened from the last time that you left off on your last podcast?
Reboot: Well I have gotten better with that and being one that was sort of had the mindset of, you buy your hold and you hope it goes up, and a couple of years you’re hoping that you’re making money on whatever you invested in. And, in some cases I had, in a few cases I had not. So and that kind of bleeds over to the other thing I was having trouble with even on paper trading is the whole idea of setting the stomp loss and honoring it. And that is still, I won’t say as much of a struggle now, but it’s still, if something goes against you, my immediate thought often is, oh well, maybe I should move the stop loss down a little bit. Because it’s going to bounce back up. It’s going to bounce back up.
Reboot: And Clay, I will be honest with you, and I have done that and it has bitten me in the butt before. So you got to, that’s one of the things I want the listeners to really walk away with from this is that, when you go into the trade, have your plan. And you’ve got to stick to it. You have to stick to it.
Clay: Let me ask you this, let me ask, but doing that, has it worked for you ever?
Reboot: Oh yes. Oh definitely.
Clay: So I mean, let me put it this way. Has It worked quite a few times for you?
Reboot: More so than not. Yes.
Clay: Okay. There we go. So the followup question becomes, those slight times when it didn’t work, what did that do to all the times where it had worked?
Reboot: It can wipe out some games is what it can do.
Clay: And is it fair to say wipe out a good chunk amount of those gains?
Reboot: It is very fair, especially with me because, I still consider myself as having a small account. I don’t have a large sum of money I’m trading with, so oftentimes my games are small. So yes, if you let them work against you, especially if you’re doing something like with options, which I tend to do a lot of and they have exploration, and then you have theta burn, all that just starts working against you.
Clay: And that’s…
Reboot: And the losses just get bigger.
Clay: Absolutely. And I wanted to bring that up. That’s a great talking point, because I can see if I put myself in the shoes of maybe somebody as a listener, that’s new and you’re thinking, well, I mean why would you do that? In fact, why would you do that multiple times? And that’s the tricky thing about the market. And that’s the tricky thing about the psychology, is a lot of times you will be rewarded for breaking rules, as in the market will still let you profit from the trade if you break the rules. So that is why you would, people do stupid things, myself included.
Clay: But you need to be aware. And the sooner the better that just because you make money in a trade doesn’t mean it was a good trade. It doesn’t mean that you behaved in a matter that’s actually going to produce long lasting results. So to Jerry’s point, yeah, breaking the rules a whole bunch of times it worked out very well. But as he said, those very few times where it didn’t work out, those quote unquote didn’t works out can be very, very big. And, I’m not saying that you’re going to be living under a bridge, but they can be very demoralizing. They can be situations where, that account growth all of a sudden goes down pretty quick.
Clay: So that is where the kind of big bites happen. It’s not like Jerry just did it one time and it bit him. No, he was suckered in slowly over time because lots of those instances it did work out. So one of those things that you got to be very aware of and definitely a good talking point there, because you’re absolutely right. The whole thing is, well I’ll just move it down a little bit more. Well eventually, there’s no more where to go, and you’re looking at a huge loss and-
Reboot: Exactly.
Clay: … Mostly just doesn’t balance.
Reboot: Exactly. I’ve experienced that at least twice in the past year since we’ve talked. And then recently I had it, it worked out in my favor and I think I even posted this in the chat room. This was, I’m thinking two weeks ago, I had gotten into a trade, and I was using tasty works and tastyworks doesn’t have the best platform for setting up, like I can’t set up a stop loss at the time that I place an order like you can with other brokers. So, but I did set a stop loss and I set it even to market because I’d had trouble with stop-losses filling on limit orders, because if something moved quickly, and passed all your numbers.
Reboot: Anyway. So this day it skipped over and it was going down, and I sat there and I knew I should just hit settle and just get out of the trade. It was going against me. I was seeing red numbers getting bigger. But I didn’t, because I was Kinda mad at the platform and just frustrated. And I said, you know what, I’ll just ride this one out. I’ll see what happens. And I got lucky because it did come back, by the end of the day, it took like all day long. But it came back, and it ended up closing just a little green. And then I posted about it and I remember saying it was very stressful because I was, we talked about all the voices in the head.
Reboot: I experienced it that day. Because when I knew that my stop lost didn’t fill, I should have just sold and I didn’t. And then I just kept questioning myself, why didn’t I sell earlier and why am I holding on to this? And maybe I should buy more. And then you have all these voices that are just telling you all these crazy things to do.
Clay: What I found for that-
Reboot: But that was lucky.
Clay: But what I find fascinating, and I appreciate you just shooting straight is, and I’ve been there too, it’s, maybe not necessarily in this exact situation, but you want it out at a certain level. And Jen, just because your broker and the way it’s set up, it got skipped over. So somehow, your voice was like, well, I mean that’s not my fault. That was a broker’s fault. So because it’s not my fault, I’m just going to… And then all of a sudden you start rationalizing, holding and holding to your point, you are frustrated at your broker. You’re angry at your broker. So somehow that anger, the voices in your head twisted into not just breaking a bunch of rules, and just putting yourself in a potentially really bad situation.
Clay: And that again, listeners, if you’ve never traded for an extended period of time, I get it. All as traders, we sound like we’re just nitpicking all. But all those little things matter, because the human mind is a crazy place, and I don’t doubt that for a second that you got mad and then somehow you used that anger to justify just breaking a bunch of rules. But I will say, and this is a good kind of mile marker for you as a listener, I don’t know, do I know what I’m doing? Am I actually on the right path to be a trader?
Clay: Is noticed that Reboot was like, yeah, I broke a bunch of rules. He was self aware to identify why he broke the rules. As stupid as it sounds, he got mad at his broker’s platform, which caused him to break the rules. But he also said, yeah, and it worked out, but it was total luck.
Reboot: Total luck.
Clay: So it’s not like a Reboot is drinking any fools gold kool-aid or anything like that. So I mean that’s really the challenge to you. Is where do you stand? Are you really, are you getting confused? Are you getting luck confused with skill? Because way too many people do, and it’s not, it doesn’t make you stupid, but I mean, when you don’t know what you don’t know, it’s quite easy to be like, oh yeah, that was a winning trade, therefore that was a good trade.
Reboot: Right.
Clay: And there’s more that goes into it than that. And, what were these, what are the other instances? You said you did it a couple of times that… Do you remember any of those details? Because that was good. This one was just strictly… You took out your anger on your broker and justified it. But-
Reboot: Oh, I had one big loss one day that, big loss to me, it was like, I think I had led a option expire, because I didn’t set a stop loss. And it was spy, and it never bounced back. And I never sold it. And I took a loss of like $200, which is a big loss to me. And that was all me. I can’t like quote blame my broker, that was me. I don’t think I even ever set one, which is, which was the problem.
Clay: Yeah. I’m curious. Do you remember why you never set one?
Reboot: I do not recall why. And I might’ve been feeling cocky that day, probably. And I learned my lesson, and then I purposely kind of didn’t trade for a couple of days. I went back and just reviewed some course material. I try to always want to learn something or review something. And, but the one thing I have learned, and I don’t want to talk, the tastyworks is actually has got it’s benefits, and it’s the first platform I was actively trading with, but thinkorswim, one of the things I like about that is when I open up a trade, I open it up as a bracket order dollars.
Reboot: I already have a stop loss set and even a profit-taking cell order set. And as long as I do that at the beginning, and just take my hands away from the computer. Heck, sometimes I do have a full time job so I do very little trading during the day. But sometimes I’ll set up an order like that, and I’ll actually just minimize the window and just let the trade either work or not work. And if my plan worked, great.
Reboot: Now I don’t want to make it sound like I just set orders and walk away on day trading all the time. But if it’s like, let’s say it’s like three contracts where I want to sell one off and then put in a trailing stop loss or whatnot, I’ll watch it. But, oftentimes if I just let the trade work, and it’ll work out in my favor, if it was a good plan to begin with.
Clay: I mean, honestly, I don’t think there’s much of a problem, even if you were just setting orders as a day trader and then walking away because that’s the whole idea behind bracket orders is it gives you total control, and I don’t think it would be a very hard argument to say. That may be the best way for a lot of people to trade because there’s no emotions that get into it.
Clay: Everything is set up, and basically the, for listeners, if you’re new, a bracket order just means it’s an advanced order and it’s just filled with a bunch of kind of if statements, meaning if this happens then do that. But if that happens then do that. And which is why you can just walk away, because I get it kind of sounds crazy what you’re day trading and then you’re just walking away. Well that’s the power of these advanced options, or these advanced order entries, bracket orders. It allows you to do that, and.
Reboot: And they’ll work if your trade plan was planned correctly and you didn’t like shoot for the moon thinking, oh, I’ll take profits way up here. And, the chart doesn’t show that that’s really that possible or the probabilities are in your favor. So as long as you’re kind of conservative. I’ve had several of those work out, and I’ve had several of those where I’ve gotten stopped out and you know what, I often say to myself, great, I’m glad I got stopped out and not let it just keep going down.
Clay: Right. Now, I didn’t ask for any of these statistics and not that, I don’t even know if you’d be able to really dig them up, but do you have any idea for the, we’ll call them the walkaway trades when you just set the bracket order and then walk away. Do you have any breakdown of kind of what those trades overall look like? It sounds like obviously you’re not perfect, like you said there, but if some of those do work out, and if you have the risk versus reward set up properly, I would think that within the big picture of things, I mean, have you noticed account growth from the quote unquote walkway trades?
Clay: Again, I realize that might be hard to track because you don’t walk away from everything, but-
Reboot: Correct. I usually don’t.
Clay: Do you have a general idea of how those workout?
Reboot: I usually don’t walk away like that too often, because most of the time if it’s during the day I’m looking kind of for a, usually for like a quick scalp. But I would, I’m looking right now to see if anything’s jumping out. But I mostly do spy because it’s just something I’ve been following, and a lot of other inner circle members trade as well. So it would have been with that, and it would have been con… I don’t see anything here.
Clay: Yeah, I was just-
Reboot: I didn’t, I didn’t answer the question, but…
Clay: Well I mean I, like you said, I don’t even know if that was possible because I realized that, it’s not like you, or I’m assuming you didn’t have like some sort of little isolated spreadsheet that was like, okay, these are all the trades where I walked away and here’s how they all turned out. But I do think just spit bond with the… That might be kind of interesting. Are you pretty good with your emotions in terms of just letting trade plans play out the way they are? It sounds like for the most part, honoring stop-losses. I mean you’ve had a couple of those struggles.
Reboot: Gotten much better to like much better.
Clay: Much better. But I mean, just in general, do you let… When you are right though, how are you doing in regards to just letting the trade plan work out the way you think that it potentially could?
Reboot: Well, sometimes I think if I know that I’m going to just close and walk away, I do think I probably bring my potential profit taking down a little bit, for fear that it won’t hit it, and then it’ll turn around. But, that would be an interesting thing to get some data on. And that’s something else. I’ve kind of, the last few months, I’ve had a real busy summer at work, and even outside of work. So I’ve actually done very few trades this summer, and I told Carl in the chat room the other day too. I think I’m about to go through the courses, the classes one more time.
Reboot: I’ve got a new account with IB set up that I just spend it and I haven’t done my first trade in it. I feel like I’m kind of…
Clay: IB mean Interactive Brokers, for listeners.
Reboot: Thank you. And, some kind of treating that account as sort of a new day, a new game per se. And the other thing I want to do that I have not done is do a better job of tracking my trades in a spreadsheet and getting some data to be able to answer things like that. Because I think there’s some good data to be found with things like that.
Clay: No, absolutely. And, strictly from a literally no emotion standpoint, I mean, even if you somehow dug back and figured those out, where you just do it going forward, I mean theoretically, you could still do those trades and I don’t, almost like some other account, and you just don’t even pay attention to them while you’re still sitting at your computer. That way you’re not tempted to adjust things. So you do it the exact-
Reboot: That’s true.
Clay: … Same way that you’ve been doing it. And then you just have your Interactive Brokers account for example, is so, I don’t know, you almost have like your tastyworks account as the walkaway account, even though you’re not even walking away. And then you could have more of an active, I don’t know. Like you said, I’m not saying any of this. [crosstalk 00:25:38].
Reboot: I think I’m going to shying away from tasty works, I’m going to keep Interactive Brokers, and thinkorswim are going to be the two that I use, because I’ve gotten used to thinkorswim now, and I’m moving over to Interactive Brokers primarily for some of the fees and it, I’m going to do futures over there or the micros. That’s something that several of us in the chat room had been getting involved with. And that’s been kind of neat, Clay, I papered it for a while and I was making pretty good trades I guess, because at some point, one of the members said, Reboot, you probably ought to be going live. In fact, it might’ve been searles, and I think he’s the one that told me, he said, you could be doing that and tastyworks right now.
Reboot: And I had no idea that I could do micros in tastyworks until I was informed, and I was like, Oh, if I could actually start doing this live. And that was kind of neat to be able to literally kind of, if you are in a trade sometimes the charts don’t play it out. But to set up a trade, go to sleep and wake up and see whether or not you got stopped out or if you made a little bit of money. And that’s kind of neat to make a little bit of green while you’re sleeping.
Clay: Yeah, in a very literal sense. Did I hear that right? Tastyworks is now offering the micro futures?
Reboot: They are. Yeah.
Clay: Okay. That’s news to me then, up until now I just always thought tastyworks with strictly options.
Reboot: I did too. As long as it’s a margin account and I have both a margin and a cash account there.
Clay: All right. Well that’s a good bit of information that I think it will be beneficial, because yeah, those micro futures… I guess, yeah, that’ll be a good talking about, what do you like about the micro futures? So from somebody that, I’m sorry, did you say that you are trading them, or you’re still paper trading.
Reboot: I am.
Clay: Okay. So there we go. So I guess if this was a sales pitch for micro futures, what are the things that really kind of caught your eye? And again, as listeners, we’re not saying this is the holy grail, but maybe you’re not aware of them and maybe this could be something that you could consider. So, what caught your eye, Reboot.
Reboot: It allows you to make trades without worrying about the pattern day trading rules. So that’s one big thing. It doesn’t really, it does tie up your purchasing power when you enter a trade, depending on what micros you’re doing. But most of us had just been doing gold and yes. So I think the big thing is, is not worrying about pattern day trading. And if I recall, I think it even insta settles, so you can just keep trading. I might be wrong on that. You know what I’m talking about, Clay.
Clay: Yeah. I guess I don’t quite know off the top of my head how exactly it works, where stocks are, what the settlement periods, what is it, two or three days? I think they just changed it recently, but yeah, I know what you’re talking about. I just don’t know exactly if it’s instantly or not, but I think the big-
Reboot: But I think they might be, which is why they require you to have a margin account.
Clay: Margin. Right? Yep. That would make sense. And, for those of you that you did not miss here, wait a second, did he just say that the pattern day trading rule doesn’t apply to futures? Yes. That is accurate. So right then that in of itself, again, neither of us were saying this is the holy grail, but oftentimes, myself included when people first get started, they kind of think that, well, the only thing that a trade out there that’s worthwhile is stocks. And all of these stocks have this stupid pattern day trading rule, and no doubt about it. Yes, it’s a very stupid rule.
Clay: But there are other areas out there, that you can trade. And that’s the powerful thing about technical analysis in the chart. Because when you learn to chart, as long as something has a value and that value changes over time, a chart can be used. And that’s why I focus on teaching people how to use the chart. That way they can understand it, and then they can take that and apply it to, whatever sort of vehicle they’re looking to trade.
Clay: So you enjoy the pattern day trading rule, like you said. I appreciate the honest overview. Not a huge fan of the, kind of capital that a ties up at times. But it’s… We’re pretty sure has the instant settle. I mean, did any other things catch your eye about? How do the patterns act? I mean, sometimes that’s what a lot of people say about Forex, is, well, Forex seems to really honor chart patterns and honor stuff like that. Have you noticed anything in that regard?
Reboot: Oh, definitely. Because, well in the evenings, maybe not so much as during the day, although I haven’t traded futures during the day, but I know like huchas. But like the micro ES, it moves just like spy or SPX or ES would move. So, there are opportunities for trades doing micros like that during the day.
Clay: And then like.
Reboot: In fact, I might even do more of those in the future. I think psychologically, I started thinking, oh I’ve just been associating micros with after hours trading for me, and because my setup per se has been, or my strategy has been primarily just scalping spy options during the day, if I have time. But at night, I have more time on my hands because I’m not working a job.
Clay: So is that where you are… So when you have time, you’re doing options, like you said with a spy, but then you’re getting involved more so with day trading. I guess, walk us through what time, and eastern time if you don’t mind?
Reboot: Yeah, eastern time. I will, typically, depending on how my day is looking at work, I’m usually in the chat. I just enjoy that interaction with the other members throughout the day. And I try not to let it be too much of a distraction. And I’ll watch some of the chat, and watch the market and if it looks like things are moving and some plays are setting up in the morning, I’ll try to do maybe one trade in the morning or again, depending on the day, there might be days where I came in. Like today was one of them. I knew I was having a busy day. I knew I had this phone call, this podcast with you.
Reboot: So I haven’t even, I didn’t even open up my platform until we got on the phone, because I knew I wasn’t going to have the time to put into it. And here’s something for the listeners. Something else that’s easy to do is force a trade. I went through that for a while back where I felt like I wanted to do at least one trade every morning. Therefore I was kind of looking for things, and I know I jumped in some trades that I probably shouldn’t have, even if they did go in my direction, later when I looked at what I did, I was like, yeah, I probably, that wasn’t really the best entry point. I was jumping in because I felt I was putting pressure on myself.
Reboot: But I’ve learned to get better about that as well.
Clay: Right. I think it was a poorly worded question on my part, but let’s just say that your job for the day, your job, job says no, there’s no time at all. It sounds like you’re still day trading in the evenings. Is that accurate?
Reboot: Oh, I was for a little while. I haven’t been lately, but yes, I was day trading to micros in the evening.
Clay: So in that time when you… So the evening quote unquote, what time was that, eastern time?
Reboot: Oh, okay. Oh, I was, probably 8:00 to 9:00 PM.
Clay: Okay, perfect. That’s all I’m trying to… So I would say that’s probably another benefit is for those of you that with jobs that are thinking, well, I mean, even if I don’t have to worry about the pattern day trading rule, I still have a job. Well here Reboot, and that’s the cool thing about the futures is they are open. I mean, essentially for like all the time.
Reboot: All the time. Yeah.
Clay: For arguments like all the time. And so yeah, now you, here’s Reboot saying, “Oh yeah, I’m day trading at like 8:00 PM eastern time.” Which sounds totally crazy. If you’re brand new and you think that the only thing you can trade is stocks or options during the normal market hours. So that is another thing that, again, not the holy grail, but something that you should, you can consider is that these micro futures, and futures in general. The nice thing about the micro futures though is that, the risk is more contained, and I’m not going to turn this into a how to trade futures or what our futures, but the way function or the way futures function is, certain movements are just, they’re going to cost you a certain amount of money, and there’s nothing you can do about it. It is what it is.
Clay: But with the micro futures, that certain amount that you could lose is much lower. So not to speak for you, Reboot, but I’m assuming that’s probably one of those other things that really caught your eye about them.
Reboot: Yeah. Being able to have a small account, and they are relatively new. We’ve worked a couple members-
Clay: Yeah, I was going to just a few months ago.Right?
Reboot: Yeah. And once I saw Hooch and a couple of other people posting their trade plans or their results, and word started getting around, I was like, well hang on, this is nice. Trading in the evenings, and no pattern day trader rules. Wonderful. And there have been times where I’ve been in bed with the laptop and looking at charts. And you asked about what time? I said somewhere between 8:00 and 9:00, but I know I have intraday trade like at 11:30 at night and woken up at 6:00 AM, and had the trade either closed or I had a stop loss said at least.
Reboot: And wake up in the morning, the trade might still be open and then I may or may not close it depending on what the chart says. But it has been nice to be able to feel like you can make a little bit of money after hours.
Clay: Yeah, absolutely. And, which is crazy. 11:00 at night puts up.
Reboot: It is.
Clay: So, I mean that’s almost like a mini swing trade, because you put in the trade, and then you go to sleep. So technically, that’s the next day is when you wake up, even if you just wake up six hours later. I mean, so in a weird way, it’s like a day trade swing trade combo, which is definitely possible with futures. And I’m assuming for all those, that’s where you’re doing your bracket orders and all that. Are you just literally getting in and then putting it in a stop?
Reboot: I’ve done one where I got in and put in a stop, and then I’ve done a couple where I’ve had bracket orders in there, a stop in a selling point.
Clay: Okay. And-
Reboot: And that’s usually the best thing to do. That’s the right thing to do, I think. If you’re playing off the chart.
Clay: This is al-
Reboot: It’s really-
Clay: No, go ahead. Sorry about that.
Reboot: I have to say if you really see a viable target, go ahead and set up and take your profits.
Clay: No, absolutely. And this is all being done on tastyworks. Correct.
Reboot: I was papering in thinkorswim, and live trading futures and tastyworks. Correct.
Clay: Okay. And what are the fees? Out of curiosity.
Reboot: Let’s see. I don’t know off the top of my head actually, but they’re not bad. Let’s see what this transaction says here.
Clay: Okay. I’m just curious what they exactly charge. Very clearly, they’re not a big deal because if they were a big deal, you’d be saying, “Hey, that was a good trade. Why is it still break even or Red?” Oh, it’s because of commission. So clearly none of those red flags have gone up. So I’m assuming that, like you said, they’re quite respectable, which is a step in the right direction.
Reboot: Yeah. It’s looking roughly a dollar, let’s just call it a dollar 50 each way per contract. I guess that’s considered contracts.
Clay: Yeah. So $3 per contract then, in and out. If it’s a buck 50 each way, then.
Reboot: Yeah. I’m seeing 85 cent in commission, and 52 cents in fees for micro gold and that would be MGC.
Clay: And this is of course all on their website. I was just curious, but point being-
Reboot: That’s not a whole lot. Yeah.
Clay: It’s not like it’s e-trade 999. Or I don’t even know what e-trade charges anymore. I think they finally got down to under five bucks. But it’s not like it’s anything crazy by any stretch. And at the end of the day.
Reboot: It’s even better than the 495 each way, which is, some people would consider that being good.
Clay: Yeah, good point. Yeah, exactly. I’ve had several people on a YouTube video or on a e-trade video I did like, well at least now it’s 495 I’m thinking, I mean that’s much better than 999, but I mean still there’s lots of other brokers out there that are even cheaper than that, but we won’t go down that rabbit hole. I did want to circle back to a point, because you’re absolutely right and it’s a great rabbit hole to explore, and that is you determined, you know what? I want to do one day trade today.
Clay: And on the surface it’s like, okay, that’s good. Reboot setting goals for himself, and he wants to do one a day and that’s great. He’s got a plan, he’s got a structured plan. It’s not like some sort of gray plan where it’s ambiguous because he’s not as, I mean he’s putting it in concrete, he wants to do one day trade. So again, on the surface that sounds so good. But I guess, I mean he already touched on it, but that’s so risky because you find yourself just making trades for the sake of hitting that quote unquote goal of one day trade per morning.
Clay: Is that accurate? You were just making trades-
Reboot: That’s very accurate.
Clay: So you could put the check mark next to yep. Good. Plan fulfilled and it sounds like that bit. Yeah. A couple of times.
Reboot: I have been bit a couple times. And that goes back to that one keyword you always… One of the key words that oftentimes people in your podcast uses. Patience. Got to have patience, before you jump in a trade. Don’t just jump in just because you feel like you’re missing out or you have to check it off your to do list, because sometimes it’s just not the right time to do it.
Clay: Absolutely. And it’s, I just like this talking point, because it’s such a great example of the irony, cruelty, savagenist of the market where, I mean, yes, you do need to have plans, but you also need to be patient. But you also have to have good plans. And in many situations, a good plan, isn’t that not one where you don’t assign numbers to anything.
Clay: It’s like, well, no, you got to be able to measure yourself somehow, but on the same time you got to be patient. So this is one of those instances where when you’re throwing out numbers such as why I want to make x amount of trades or I want to make x amount of money, for me, I’ve had this plenty of times where I don’t know, I’m at 940 bucks, and I’m like thinking, “Oh man, 60 bucks away from f.” I like saying I made $1,000 today. All right, well I got to make $60 more.
Clay: And then I find myself and I okay. Oh okay. Okay. And then all of a sudden I’m at 750 because I’m trying to make 60 extra dollars because there’s some stupid goal of, “Oh wow I want to get $1000, and all of a sudden, you take even a loss. So be very careful with those goals. And like you said, I don’t have a perfect answer of how to go about it, but just realize whenever you’re setting numbers, which a plan should have, but then it almost shouldn’t have it from the patient’s department like Reboot saying, because now all of a sudden your patients can really be tested because you’re thinking, well I got to hit that number, I got to do that number. And all of a sudden you’re in circumstances that you, the literal only reason why you’re in them is because you threw some arbitrary number out there.
Reboot: True.
Clay: And, sometimes, I mean, really, it should’ve just be take the trade when it happens, which means you could have two mornings in a row with no trade at all. And then the third morning maybe you have three trades because the market just booming for your strategy and all of a sudden… So really the best way to put it is you would want to average one a day, and just kind of let them, the market-
Reboot: That’s a better way of looking at it.
Clay: Yes.
Reboot: Average one a day. Because you might have a day where… In fact I’ve had days like that, where I’ve had three or four trades, which is right above my norm. But it happened to be a very active volatile day with lots of setups available. So I might’ve done four in one day and average out to one trade a day. I don’t really have any set plans like that right now, or set goals of doing one a day. Now it’s just… If I see something, I have the time, I’ll take it.
Clay: There you go. And I think that’s… If you see something and quote unquote seeing something to fill in… Seeing something that makes sense where you can control risk, have upside reward. So not just see random things but see something that makes sense. And if not, oh well or if I have time, and if I don’t have time than it is what it is. And I would imagine that the whole micro futures is also making that much easier. Because I would think in the back of your mind somewhere, you have the, well, if nothing happens during the day with spy options, I could always potentially trade this evening with the futures. So, I mean, do you have that kind of almost peace of mind and comfort knowing that you could still get some day trades on in the evening time?
Reboot: Yeah. So not forcing myself to feel like I have to make a trade today since I can do micros in the evening or if I’m having a better day another day of the week, I can do several trades. So if I can average out, average of one a day, that’s very helpful. And I also want to make a reference, earlier we were talking about hitting a certain number when you were talking about when you might be sitting at $940 and you’re like, oh, just 60 more dollars. I hit 1000. And analogy to that would be you’re pumping gas at a gas station. It fills up and it stops at 4894, and I’m like, you know what, I’m going to make that end right at 49. And then you try, and then you have 49 01 and then you feel like you’ve just blew the whole thing.
Clay: That’s a great way to look at it, for sure.
Reboot: And then I go, and I’m like, well let me do 49 10. For some reason you want that even number.
Clay: Right. It’s almost like, it’s like a reverse stop loss. You keep going up to hit the number but you’re actually just spending more and more money. And, that’s actually.
Reboot: And then there’s that big sign staring at you that says do not top off. Because if you keep doing that too much, you’re going to spit gas out all over the place.
Clay: Right.
Reboot: Which I have done. Stupid like that.
Clay: I mean, the human mind it all goes back to that, is a pretty crazy place.
Reboot: It really is.
Clay: It is bizarre. And as I’ve said many times before, and I’ll say plenty of times after this, I fully get it. If you’ve never traded, if you’ve never had real money on the line, then us traders, we sound like we’re psychopaths. We sound like we’re crazy talking about all these voices in our head, and oh then because this happened I want… All to say is please don’t be too judgmental. It’s fine. Call us crazy. Maybe we are crazy, but you’ll understand much more if you just thought, put some money in the markets.
Clay: Now before I forget though, you would mention, paper trading and you mentioned that the last time you had left off was you were still going through the courses. So, and then we’ve clearly established the fact that you are trading with real money now, but I guess kind of fill in that gap. What was the process from going through the courses and still paper trading to then actually putting real money on the line? Because that’s a situation where, that relates to a lot of people. How do I know when I’m ready? What sort of things should I do to get ready? So I guess kind of fill in that gap. Does that make sense?
Reboot: It does. And, I don’t remember exactly when I thought I was ready. I think I did suffer a little bit of fear of missing out, being in the chat room and seeing people post their gains, and whatnot. And I’m paper trading and I might have some good trades. I’m thinking, oh, I’m ready. I’m ready to be making some real money. But I do know this, I did start off with doing some swing trading, which I still try to do. I try, it’s been a couple of months, but for several months, I would try to have at least one swing trade going on in the background in addition to what I may or may not do during the day.
Reboot: And I’ve done pretty well with some of the swing trading, and several of them were based off of your newsletter, your newsletter.
Clay: [inaudible] what’s the logic behind that? I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that at all. I’m just out of curiosity, what’s the logic of always wanting to have kind of one swing trade going on in the background?
Reboot: Oh good point.
Clay: Again, I’m not implying anything is wrong. I’m just curious. What’s the logic?
Reboot: I’ll tell you. I think part of it is just education. Just another form of learning, and watching trade plans work but over a longer period of time I think is kind of neat. And I think it has to do with that mentality we talked about in the beginning, and last podcast, where I like kind of having something that I’m holding onto that’s making money. What I probably need to do is do the grow rich, where we taught were-
Clay: You haven’t done grow rich yet.
Reboot: Oh. Go ahead.
Clay: You savage.
Reboot: Give me a lecture.
Clay: The person. The part of the irony here is of epic proportions, the person that loves the longterm stuff. And you haven’t even done the long term course yet.
Reboot: No I haven’t.
Clay: Oh man. Well, to be fair to you.
Reboot: I haven’t done that one, well, I haven’t gone through all the advanced options. But I’ve done all the other ones. But those two.
Clay: To be fair though, I mean, for all I know because you have such a background in the longterm stuff, I mean you may go through that and be like, yeah, I know that. Oh yeah, I’ve heard of that. I mean, so I’m not necessarily saying you’re missing on anything, but from an ironic point of view, that’s pretty funny that you haven’t gone through that one yet. But do you have something for your work, like a 401(k) or anything, where you’re still investing in all that for the long haul?
Reboot: I do not. I had some 401(k) years ago, and I did cash it out for some reason. It was not huge. It was a small 401(k), because I actually work full time, so I have like a pension through the state retirement.
Clay: Got you. Okay.
Reboot: So for a short while, I built up a little bit of a 401(k) through a previous employer, and I think I just cashed it out. It might’ve been when we were buying the house, and I knew we would get penalized by the government on it, but at the time it was necessary.
Clay: No, I mean, I cash out my 401(k) as soon as I got done with Honeywell, I think I pulled out like $5,000 because I’d only been with the company for like a year, I don’t know, we’re so, hey, welcome to the club of-
Reboot: I think that’s about what mine was that when I pulled out too. It was like 4800 or something. [crosstalk 00:49:32].
Clay: Right it sound like $500,000 and you’re pulling it out with the fees, and that means you’re paying like 80 grand, and no, it wasn’t anything crazy. It sounds like in either of our parts, but you do have something through the state then like a pension or something?
Reboot: Yeah, they just called state retirement. Other people call it pension, I guess is one in the same.
Clay: I was a little worried for a second, like wait a second, is Reboot going to be like… But alright, you got, it’s not like you have nothing in place there. So that’s good.
Reboot: But I do want to start a money tree, and I’m, one of the things I’m going to try to do, you will be proud of this Clay. My daughter is a senior in college this year, and she will be graduating without any debt.
Clay: Awesome. What is she majoring in?
Reboot: She is majoring in food science and nutritional science, something along those lines. She’s always been a… Ever since she was little, she’s just been interested in food and she reads labels and she doesn’t like processed things. I mean, she has taught her mother and I a lot of things about food. And we make jokes about, is this food Cameron approved, meaning our daughter. So she has taught me some things.
Clay: So her name is Cameron.
Reboot: It is.
Clay: Cameron. Shout out. All right, well, I don’t know, I feel like I should have on my money with Clay Podcast, because I want to use her as a shining example of how you graduate debt free from college. I mean, how has she… Did she work all the way through? Did she have scholarships? What was the?
Reboot: She worked real hard? Her mother is remarried and we were able to use a little bit of GI bill money, for her first year, but she’s gotten scholarships, which has been real helpful. And then I actually had been paying for it. So that’s what I was leading up to. I was, I’m waiting for her to finish this year and then I’m going to, I want to start the money tree process and do a little bit more longterm investing I guess.
Clay: That’s awesome. I mean, as somebody with four kids, I mean, that’s pretty sweet that you’re invested into your daughter, and if that’s pushing off your money tree then so be it. I don’t think anybody can really get on your case for being selfless like that. So, [crosstalk] props to you sir.
Reboot: Yeah, we don’t want her to be burdened with all that debt, when she graduates, as so many people are,
Clay: The numbers out there.
Reboot: It’s terrible.
Clay: They really are. It’s a scary situation. And I mean-
Reboot: And I’m actually a data analyst in the financial aid office at a university. So I see these numbers, and it’s just scary.
Clay: Yeah. I was not to get too doom and gloom, but you know want, I mean you see studies that are like, well millennials, and all that sort of… They’re pushing off having kids because, well crap, I can barely feed myself. How am I going to feed a kid? Which I would say, hey, I can’t understand that, that actually sounds like a responsible thought process to go through. With then, it almost makes it like, so what’s happening with the, as seems like the population of the United States is going to shrink almost, in some senses because if people are pushing off having kids or not even having kids because of student loan debt, I mean it really is a, like I said, I get it, that’s generations away.
Clay: But it is really a nasty, nasty little bugger when you stop and think about it where these, people are just getting out of school in their early twenties or whatever. And they got that big old monster just waiting at their door. So yeah, that’s… She’s…
Reboot: well, I know, I know we’re kind of down a little rabbit hole here, but I’ll give you an example of something. I work at a medical university, so most of our students come in already with an undergraduate degree, so that they might be in med school or dental school here. I’ve seen one student that actually went to med school and ran up a bunch of debt for that, and then he decided to go to dental school right after med school. Ran a bunch of debt for that. He graduated with almost a half a million dollars in debt. That is mind blowing.
Clay: Yeah. I don’t even know what like a, what interest rates on debt are. I feel like I just [crosstalk 00:53:47].
Reboot: And I know the government rates are pretty competitive, but still. And these people, if he’s going to be a successful doctor, oral surgeon or whatever, he’ll be able to pay it back quicker than a lot of people. But still it’s just a mind blowing number.
Clay: And I mean that’s true, and we’re going to sit on the rabbit hole for a little while longer. But what I find or not what I found, but what seems to happen a lot of times is these people graduate, and they’re like, “Hey, I’m a doctor. Doctors make a lot of money,” which is true. Therefore I’m going to go get some nice car, buy some fancy house. And it’s like, well don’t you think you should maybe first knock out some of that debt before you bought?
Clay: I think that’s a massive problem is they’ve been in school for so long, and good for them, but I don’t care how much money-
Reboot: [inaudible] themselves.
Clay: Yeah. And it’s like, well that’s going to be kind of hard with 200, $300,000 in debt. But it is what it is. I guess we both digress, because like we could go a whole another podcast on this topic alone. But yeah, that’s awesome that your daughter is in that spot, and well done for you. But yes, to bring this back into the markets, you should definitely get through the grow rich course. But it does sound like you have some time before that needs to technically go in a plate.
Clay: But just to kind of, I guess, and I know you talked about this, but to wrap up the paper trading thing, how did you do paper trading? Were you going old school, writing things down in a journal? Did you have some sort of simulator? What was your, from kind of a hands on practical point of view. How did you do all that paper trading stuff?
Reboot: I was using thinkorswim, stimulating trading, and I did set it up. I learned this early on in the chat room and from you. Don’t trade with $100,000 fake money, and do trades that you’ll never do realistically because then you’re just setting up bad habits.
Clay: But didn’t you know that a $100,000 and $1,000 is the same exact thing?
Reboot: It is.
Clay: You were there for that one. You were there for that too.
Reboot: Yes.
Clay: Good. That’s just ah, you know, some people for context say here don’t be like this. And I mean we had a new members sign in, sign up, and they’re asking questions, which is fine, be new, ask questions, but this person is paper trading and they were, long story short, they were using way too much more than what they would actually have. And we’re like, hey, I mean if you’re not going to have that amount of money when you go live, then you’re not really being realistic, because you want to make things as realistic as possible.
Clay: And I mean this person just told the chat room, no, no, no. Listen, I’m like been training for a month now, $100,000 and then $1,000 this is the exact same thing. It’s all about the habits, and it’s like, okay, fine. We tried to help you. You’re going to learn very quickly that when you go live with $1,000 when you’ve been practicing with $100,000 there’s going to be some things that don’t quite go as smoothly-
Reboot: Definitely.
Clay: But some people just, they ask for help and then if they, if really it’s not help, it’s, they’re looking for somebody to reassure the bad things that they’re doing, and if they don’t hear that reassurance, it’s, well no, I wasn’t actually asking for help that, because this is what it is. Even though I’m brand new, this is what really matters, but…
Reboot: Heck, the other day, I pulled up the paper trading platform, and I think I was going to just practice off of note alert that you posted, and I’d already had a couple things opened, paper trading, and it told me I did not have enough buying power to do what I wanted to do. And I said, oh that’s realistic, because I put in the actual amount of money I would be trading with, and sure enough, that’s a real thing. Let me make that trade. It wouldn’t have been real because I wouldn’t have had the money to begin with if it was a real trade.
Clay: Yeah, exactly.
Reboot: With the buying power.
Clay: Yep. And I get it, it doesn’t seem like it matters. It’s like, well whatever, I’m just practicing, fill in the blank what you’re practicing. But there’s just something really, really different about that. And I don’t even care if it’s, well I’m going to have $1,000, but I’m going to practice with 5,000. That it’s all only $4,000. Just listen, there is no perfect transition to real money trading to begin with. So knowing that, just be as perfect and as realistic as possible when you’re practicing, because even if you are as perfect as possible when you still go live, then that’s where the new voice is come into play because that money you see is flashed on the screen, that’s like real money. There is no reset button, that is money that presumably you’ve worked hard for and you care about.
Clay: And, paper trading will never bring that about in any way. But, even knowing that, that’s why please, listeners just make paper trading as realistic as possible. So I’m glad that you did that, and I mean, I’m not going to say that it was probably a perfect transition for you, but I mean, how did all that go when you, to your best of your memory when you went from paper trading to live. I mean, did you ease in very slowly or how did you go about all that?
Reboot: Oh, I eased in slowly, and I eased in realistically because I’d been paper trading with what I was going to trading with anyway. So I felt like it was smooth. Overall it was smooth.
Clay: Okay. So it’s nothing that, and I’m not shocked by that because I mean, you actually did things the way you’re supposed to do them, which makes sense and that’s.
Reboot: I listen to my instructor, and my classmates.
Clay: Well, as we just talked about some people as maybe as obvious as that sounds maybe to do, not necessarily to the instructor, but if you have a whole bunch of classmates and a whole bunch of people around you saying the same thing, I’m not saying that’s a universal rule, but is it at least logical that maybe there’s some sort of truth to it? Expect, for case in point, the three-word answer, I don’t know how many times I’ve heard patience and discipline, but to be fair, maybe patience and discipline have nothing to do with being a successful trader. But if you hear something over and over again, maybe there’s a chance that it’s true.
Clay: But I’m looking at the time here. We can, we’ll have to start to wrap things up, but did you have any other talking points that you wanted to make because, I’m learning that sometimes those are… Some of you welcome back guests. I have some really good little nuggets that you want to make sure you get out there first or just comment on.
Reboot: I might have one nugget I guess I actually.
Clay: Please share them.
Reboot: I took some notes a couple of days ago, because I was like what Clay and I going to talk about? And some of these we already hit on, I was just talking about me kind of what I’m doing. But one of the things I wanted to point out is, you can get some really good trading ideas in the chat room. In fact Hooch made a call for MLNX a couple of weeks ago for swing trading, and I’ve studied the chart, and got in on it, and had a nice trade based on that. So in addition to the classes, there’s a lot of value in the inner circle chat room.
Clay: And you’re not paid to say that, quotes.
Reboot: I’m not paid to say that. I learned a lot of things in there. I’m sure you’ve seen me refer to it as a classroom because it is like a classroom. Sometimes we’re getting taught things that have nothing to do with market either.
Clay: [crosstalk] some weird stuff.
Reboot: [crosstalk 01:01:14]. Coffee. When I first joined everybody was talking about coffee and roasting beans, and I’ve seen all kinds of topics.
Clay: Yeah. Since 2013 when I started it, I’ve learned some really goofy things. But when you have people that actually in a weird way are friends, even though we’ve just all met in an internet chat room, I’m well aware of how goofy that sounds. But yeah.
Reboot: It is goofy, [crosstalk 01:01:36].
Clay: It is good for now. This for clarity sake care, there are three chat rooms and in the chat room where the coffee talk and these random things take place, and that is in the non alert room. So it’s not like there’s an alert for something and then there’s coffee talk, and then there’s alert for some… Everything is separated out, so the lounge, quote unquote is what that chat room is called, is where the random stuff takes place. And of course that’s where people talk about the marketing stuff in general. But then there’s also other chat rooms where it’s alerts only, that way it’s very streamlined, and you can be focused on…
Clay: If all you want is alerts and you don’t want anything about coffee, that’s totally fine. You would just want to focus on the alert space chat rooms.
Reboot: And we have users that are like that.
Clay: Yeah, honestly, I think most people are like that. They’re like, yeah, you know what the lounge, that’s kind of funny. I’ll swing by every now and then, but I’m here for the alerts, and that is totally cool too. There was no like requirement that says you have to participate. No, it’s just whatever you think works best for you. Well, I mean, thank you for hanging out, and congratulations. You’re doing things the right way. Sure. You’re not pulling out massive, massive numbers, but I mean really in all actuality, you basically just started a year-ish ago.
Reboot: Pretty much.
Clay: And you’re now with live money. You’re making money. You’re getting your habits down. You’ve made some mistakes. Welcome to the club. Thank you for sharing those mistakes. But yeah, man, I mean really, all I can really say is just keep on going, and I mean you’re definitely going about the way things that, I mean they need to go about. I mean, this is not an overnight success type business and I think you’re a good example of how that is indeed the case, is just slow and steady grind.
Reboot: That’s exactly what I’m doing. Taking my time, and trying to think things through methodically, and learning something every day.
Clay: And that’s really all you can do. So well, Reboot, I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you telling your story. And I fully expect and count on you being around a year from now, and we’ll have to do this a year just to get that many more updates.
Reboot: I think I will, I’m here for the long haul. I’m looking at this as being something for an income stream for when I retire.
Clay: And, but also you have to promise me I don’t want to get on here a year from now, and be like, I still haven’t taken the goal rich course. Please! It’s only like eight hours. I don’t even know if, yeah, I think it’s like seven or eight hours of video. So one of the shorter courses. So, I mean, can you at least promise that you’ll get through it at least within the next year.
Reboot: I promise.
Clay: All right, perfect. Perfect.
Reboot: I will make that promise.
Clay: Well, Jerry, quote unquote, thank you for [crosstalk 01:04:08].
Reboot: No, no, no, not Jerry. Not Jerry.
Clay: I know. [inaudible 01:04:11].
Reboot: Yeah I do.
Clay: Thank you for hanging out, Reboot. I had to end on the irony of how this all started, but I appreciate it, and yeah man, thanks for hanging out, and I’m sure I’ll talk with you in like two minutes from now and the chat room, but thanks for hanging out.
Reboot: Sounds good. All right.
Clay: All right, listeners out there. Final few things before you go. First off, if you enjoyed listening to the podcast and you want to subscribe, and just be alerted whenever things happen, then on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, make sure you subscribe. Now a special request on iTunes, especially if you could leave us a rating or even a written review that really helps out and goes a long way, and I would greatly appreciate it. Even if you never spent a dime on the site with courses or memberships, that’s cool. But if you enjoy these, then yeah, please help us out with just leaving us a rating or a written review. Like I said, that really helps out.
Clay: If you’re listening to this on on the show notes page, then there is a live chat box there that you can reach out to us, comments, questions, feedback. We love to hear from listeners and that’s always encouraging and say, hey, I heard about you on the podcast, and it’s great to know that people are listening to this, and getting benefit from it. So like I said, reach out to us through that way. On although, I appreciate you as listeners, appreciate Reboot, and we will see you all next week. Everybody take care.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the clay Trader Community, including the trading team, premium training and more visit

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