Clay Trader Podcast
STR 224: From Chaos To Logic
These conversations are some of my favorites. They start out in pure confusion, chaos and craziness; however, by the end of the discussion you can see real progress has been made. Fellow member James tells us all about what he has been through, where he is at, and where he is headed in the future. What I find to be most motivating and inspiring is that you can start out as chaotic as he did, but if you stay self-aware and make the changes that need to be put into place, it is completely possible to start to consistently grow your trading account. I respect that James kept his ego in check and admitted to himself that things needed to change. There is a great lesson in that in and of itself. The great part is, that is only the tip of the iceberg! So let’s get to it!
Clay: Before we get to the episode, a quick little update and announcement here. I am now offering a live web class, webinar, training, workshop, whatever you want to call it. If you want to go to claytrader.com/live, again, claytrader.com/live, you can go and claim a seat, and it is a live event, like I said, and this is a way for you to get to know me more so, get to know what I have to offer, get to know, really, my philosophy and my take on the market.
Clay: I cover three things, three keys that are very, very powerful, that are, quite frankly, required if you ever want to gain consistency within the market, consistency being the keyword. Sure, anybody can score a huge winner here or there, but to consistently make money is a whole another skill, and really, that’s what it’s all about because again, a blind drunk chicken with its head cut off can score a big winner, can score a winning trade, but holding on to those gains and slowly growing an account is what really matters, assuming that you want to be in this trading business for the long haul, and that’s what I cover.
Clay: I cover the three things that I’ve learned and, really, the three main attributes that if you don’t have them as a foundation, then I mean, this will sound arrogant, but it’s the truth. You’re never going to actually have any true chance at success, and it took me a whole lot of money. It took me a whole lot of time to figure those things out. I realized I’ve probably talked about all these things throughout the course of the 200+ episodes, but if you want everything condensed and boiled down and just to really see my teaching style in motion, maybe you’re on the fence, “I don’t know if I want to join. I’m not quite sure,” like I said, sign up for it and you’ll see my style.
Clay: If I put you to sleep or if I confuse you, then, hey, there you go. You know that we’re just not a right fit, but it’s totally free, and it’s right around 90 minutes long, give or take, because it’s live and there’s question and answers. There’s no way to quite know for sure, but I’d encourage you to go sign up for it, and just learn more about the community and learn about myself, and learn about those three keys that really make a big difference to all of us as traders. So, again, claytrader.com/live. Go there. Sign up, and I’ll see you there. This the Stock Trading Reality Podcast episode 224.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday normal people, who are currently on their journey to trading success. This is your host, he once talked for literally three hours straight, no break, Clay Trader.
Clay: Yeah, I honestly don’t know how I did it, and there’s some good lessons here, too. It’s really pathetic on my part, but a little context. So, I have been doing live webinars that are free for people. So, on that note, a little plug. Go to claytrader.com. If you want to see my teaching style and how I explain just what it takes to become a consistent trader, then go to, like I said, claytrader.com, and you can sign up for this live webinar that I am referring to right now.
Clay: When I first launched it, I didn’t quite know how it would go in the sense of I have all these slides, I had this presentation, I mean, it dawned me, but I should have probably done a test run like, “Okay. Let me do a test run,” but I had it all … Everything was in structure and in place. So, from that point of view, I approached it not to pat myself on the back because clearly, I was an idiot about it at the end of the day, but I approached it in a logical, in a pretty structured way.
Clay: So, I was like, “All right. Well …” So, of course, I started estimating, “Okay. If I spend about this amount of time on a slide, all right, yeah, that will be a respectable amount of time.” Well, as structured and beautiful as it was in terms of the layout and how I was going to approach it from the presentation standpoint, my estimations were a bit off, and yeah, it was actually longer than three hours. At the end, when you factored in the questions and answers at the end, right around three and a half hours of talking straight, not like, “Okay. Let me take a little quick break here,” just straight, going and going and going.
Clay: At the end, I’ve never boxed, but I would imagine that a boxer feels like I probably felt afterwards because, I mean, I was just mentally beat. I couldn’t even do math. I actually looked at the clock and literally was like, “Hey, not too bad. Thanks for everybody for hanging out and who made it two hours.” Somebody politely was like, “Well, according to my math, it’s three hours,” and it just dawned on me, “Oh, yeah. That’s right. It’s 10:00 right now Eastern time, and we started this thing or no, it’s right around 10:30 Eastern time right now, and we started this thing at 7:30,” because the first one was at 7:30. They’re now 7:00, and it just … Well, I can’t even do math. Mentally exhausted.
Clay: So, the moral of the story here is just because you have something structured in the sense of you’re confident and how you’re going to approach it, you should probably do a test run just to make sure that it’s not … There are still people at the end. In fact, there is a good amount of people that were still there after three hours of this training and of me talking. So, I mean, I’m glad they found value enough in it to stick around, but I have since narrowed that down in wielded it down. So, it’s still, give or take, because it is live and because it’s truly live and there is a live question and answers, you never know quite how long it’s actually going to go, but it’s right around the 90ish-minute mark now.
Clay: So, I’ve had to hack things down to right around 90 minutes because, yeah, there’s no way I … Three and a half hours, three hours, it was just … I don’t know how I did it, honestly. I mean, I never even took a drink of water when I think back on it, but yeah.
Clay: So, a good lesson there. I don’t care how confident you feel about a structure of something. Do a test run, okay? Just do a test run. There’s a lot of parallels there with trading in and of itself. I had to learn that the hard way. Even though it was obvious as that lesson was, I got overly confident because I had things set up in a process that I felt good with, but I chose poorly in that regard, but funny, but also, like I said, full disclosure here, full transparency, this is also a plug for you to go and I want you as, if you’re not really familiar or maybe you’re on the fence, “Clay, I want to learn a little bit,” or “I’d like to see your style in action,” then yeah, claytrader.com, and there’s a … You’ll see a place is all over the place.
Clay: In fact, I kick things off showing how I only had one losing day out of 73 days in total. Yes. I’ll say that again. Only one red day, one losing day out of 73 days in total. I realized that sounds impossible, but I’ll show you. With proof, I’ll show my broker statements and all that stuff, and you can see that it is possible. So, that’s just another little teaser and plug to go get you to sign up, but there is … I put a whole lot of effort into it. Like I said, there’s too much effort at first because I had too much information. It was three hours at first, but I’ve narrowed down to those key points, those core concepts that matter, and knocked right down around to 90 minutes. So, go sign up.
Clay: As for the episode, a really, really good one, and I mentioned this towards the end of it, but I’ll say it right now as we get started with it, but I like ones where they just start off with pure chaos, pure and utter chaos, and then at the end, it’s like full circle, not full circle. It’s like a 180, and the person … You’ll see what I mean, but just realize that our guest today, James, who is a member of the community, and he’s been active. I’m not even going to try to pronounce his name. You’ll see it on the episode, and it’s just an embarrassment.
Clay: I’ve already embarrassed myself enough, but a great discussion and one where if you stick through the whole thing, you’ll see that it starts off very, like I said, chaotic, chaotic, no idea what’s going on, and then at the end, he’s making some really, really good observation and his logic behind decisions is rock solid. I mean, I had commend him on that. So, you can just see the growth of how somebody can start off with, yeah, just randomness, and then bring himself to being able to approach and think through, but there’s still some things he realized he needs to do, and he has since done them actually, but a really fun interview, a fun discussion.
Clay: As I told James, I hope he listens, too. So, James, I hope you’re listening to this because I know you don’t really like to hear your voice, but just to watch your little journey within this hour discussion in and of itself is pretty impressive. So, let’s get to it and hear about James and his chaotic journey.
Clay: James, welcome to the show.
James: I’m honored to be in your show. Thank you.
Clay: Well, you mentioned you had listened to past episodes and also, before I forget, you volunteered to do this on your own accord, which I very much appreciate it.
Clay: Much easier than having to hunt people down and stuff like that. So, thank you very much.
James: No problem.
Clay: Now, I’m looking at your screen name, and I recognized the alias from chat room, but I have no idea how to actually pronounce it, and I refuse to make a fool of myself right now. So, how do I actually pronounce your alias so people can recognize you? Connect the dots for those people that are part of the community.
James: I mean, the username is random. The reason why I just typed it, I mean, it’s called Sleethes, but in this podcast, you can call me James. I think that’s just-
Clay: Sleethes? Okay. Yeah. That doesn’t roll off my tongue very well. So, whether or not you want me to call you James, I’m calling you James. I don’t even care if your name is not James.
Clay: I will be calling you James.
Clay: All right.
Clay: Sleethes. Got it. Got it. Yeah. That would be a disaster. Like in trading, let’s try to avoid disasters when possible, but all right. James, where did all this start for you? Where did you hear about the market? What got you interested, and what played out to the point that made you get interested enough to where you wanted to get more hands on with it?
James: So, this was back in college. So, I was in an investment club of some sort. One of my friends, he basically invited me to join the club because he was the president of that club, and we did. So, we delve into investing and just the idea of investing, and getting into just the basic stuff with stocks and stuff.
Clay: Now, I have to interrupt you real quick. This doesn’t mean anything for you because last week’s episode has not aired for you as of the time of this recording, you don’t know anybody else, do you?
James: Are you talking about the inner circle?
Clay: No. So, DeWolf, when I say that, does that mean anything to you? You didn’t go to college with DeWolf, did you?
James: Oh, no. I don’t-
Clay: Oh, got it. Cool. No. It’s just-
James: Wait. DeWolf? Who are you talking about?
Clay: All right. That answers my question. Last week, last episode, last interview I did, somebody was talking about it, basically the same thing, “Hey, I was in an investment club in college.” In that episode, they were like, “Yeah. I know DeWolf from the inner circle.” So, I didn’t know if this was some sort of where you knew those guys, too, but you don’t. You don’t. Where did you go to college?
James: I mean, I knew someone … Well, I went to Cal Baptist.
Clay: In California?
James: Yeah, in California.
Clay: Okay. These guys were in Massachusetts. They went to school.
James: Okay. All right.
Clay: So, totally opposite ends of the country. I promise this conversation we’re having will make so much more sense when you actually listen to the episode that airs one week before yours, then you’re like, “Oh, that’s what Clay was talking about,” but to defend you to the listeners out there, he has no reference point. I’m the only one here with a reference point because he has not, like I said, the episode that I’m referring to hasn’t quite gone public yet as of this recording, but all right. Sorry to cut you off. So, you’re in an investment club in college, and I’ll let you pick it up back from there.
James: Yeah. So, we delve right into … Well, yeah, the club. We delve right into stocks, and the idea of investing and going for a longterm place, and all those things with ethics behind investing, and how to, I guess, apply certain ways to get into a position far more so from the fundamental perspective. I guess that’s where I first understood the stock market itself.
Clay: So, you said you had a buddy invite you to that club.
James: Yeah. He was basically the president at that time of that club. So, yeah, I was encouraged.
Clay: Okay. So, my question is, what do you think made him invite you to that club? I mean, were you always talking about you wanting to grow money or was it just because he was your friend? I mean, why do you think he invited you to a club? Because I know a lot of people who I would never invite to an investment club just because I can tell that they just don’t care about that stuff. So, why do you think he invited you?
James: Well, we were definitely a bit of a close friend at that time. So, I was very much business-minded. So, when I hear stuff like investing, that lights up … There’s a light bulb that goes off in my head.
Clay: Okay. So-
James: That motivated me to go in. Since he was also in the same major, we both have somewhat like-minded things to share about.
Clay: Okay. Now, that makes sense because I mean, I was never invited into an investment club.
James: I’m sorry, Clay.
Clay: The only thing I ever got invited to in college was, “Do you want to join the Rugby Cleat team?” I’m like, “What do I look like?” No offense to you Rugby players out there. I played football. I was like, “What? Do I look like a meathead walking around? Why am I …?” I never was approached about the investment club. All right. Well, cool. So, you learned about all the fundamental analysis, and the ethics, and all those sorts of things, and this is also in college. So, did you actually put any real money into the market during college or I guess, where did all that-
Clay: Okay. You did. So, walk us through that then.
James: Yeah. So, he’s also the … So, I told you before, we’re in the business and finance stuff, somewhere in that major. He introduced me to … Well, let me back track. Sorry about this, Clay.
Clay: No problem. Hey, no problem at all. Back track away.
James: So, I was wondering. It’s like, “How does a person invest into something?” I mean, I had no idea. I was totally new to this stuff. Someone told me, he’s like, “You get into a broker. I mean, you find a broker, and that’s where you put your money, and then you invest into certain securities.” I guess that’s how I began to et into the process of putting my money, and eventually into a certain stock. The president, my friend, of that club, because of the commissions thing, he introduced me to Robin Hood.
Clay: Good old Robin Hood. Robin Hood strikes again.
Clay: I’m assuming you, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming your first investment trade, whatever you were calling it at that time, came from the investment club. Is that-
James: It was all over the place.
Clay: It was all over the place?
James: It was all over the place.
Clay: Where did the first one come from, though? Part of the investment club?
James: Not from the investment club. So, I actually did some “research” on some stocks that I found out. I put my money into a … I don’t think I remembered what kind of stock that was, but it was more of like in the tens or just around the $5 to $10 range when it comes to stocks. No. When I thought in which it was investing, it wasn’t like … At that point of time, I didn’t know the difference between investing and trading. So, I put my money in. As soon as I bought something, my portfolio just immediately went from 100 to 99.
James: So, I actually put $100 in at the time. I just decided to put all of it. Well, not all of it at first, but eventually, I mean, I didn’t know position sizing or even limit orders or market orders. I have absolutely no idea. So, I just put my money in.
Clay: I was going to say-
James: I had no idea about cash account. I had no idea about margin account. I had no idea about PDT. I had nothing. This is all personally inspired through consistently painful experiences that I finally realized certain things.
Clay: Yeah. I was going to make the comment in a nonjudgmental way that it sounds like it’s safe to assume you had absolutely no idea what you’re doing, but you just confirmed for us that yes, you had no idea.
James: I had no idea.
Clay: Because right now, it sounds like pure randomness. It sounds like chaos, but what about the club?
James: I was looking at a chart, and I had no clue what it was actually telling me. It’s like there’s this common theme where markets go up and markets go down, but there’s not really … The reality is, is it’s just so much different from that up-down, up-down behavior with the market.
Clay: That’s a good way to put it. A lot of people look at the market and just like, “Oh, the market does go up and down, up and down,” and that’s true to an extent, but like you’re saying, there’s definitely more to it that goes into it. So, okay. You pretty much have no idea what’s going on. You’re out there just pure chaos. I mean, were you making money on these things? Were you losing money or I mean, how did the chaos actually play out? I mean, where did all this take you from there when, we’ll call it this, the chaos stage, if you will?
James: I mean, I, honestly, I had no fool’s gold. I was just the most unlucky. I’m the unluckiest person when it comes to trading any of these things. I guess it was just this bleeding, consistent bleeding just from the beginning.
Clay: I’m curious, though. You mentioned research and finding. Where were you finding these stocks? Were you finding them on social media or are you-
James: It was more article-wise, on the internet, just reading off of articles, and thinking that the analysts have the best interest, has your best interest. So, I mean, just going back and seeing from the perspective of today, it’s ridiculous to think that there’s a certain way in treating a certain security. So, what I mean by that is when a person thinks about, “What stocks should I buy?” I mean, in the trading world, that’s absolutely oblivious. There’s no reason for someone to really ask that kind of a question. I mean, if you know what I mean in your experience.
Clay: Yeah. I mean, it makes perfect sense.
James: It’s a weird question.
Clay: It makes perfect sense to ask the question as a new person, but as an experienced person, you’re like, “That’s the worst question asked, ‘What sort of stock should I buy?’”
James: I just wanted to make money at that time. So, I mean, I was probably going through some holding and hoping with some of the securities. I mean, your videos are spot on.
Clay: Do you remember any of the ticker symbols?
James: I would say … I think it’s some pharmaceutical. It was Corvus Pharmaceutical and Callaway. Well, I mean, Callaway Golf is not really a … I mean, it’s a legit company, but I went in through those stocks with that kind of a mindset. Yeah, some of these pharmaceutical companies from $5 to $10 range. Whenever a stock goes up, I’m ecstatic, and when it goes down, I’m emotionally sad about it.
Clay: So, you never took any profits when the stocks went up then?
James: Honestly, no. It’s like I have to be perfect. I had no clue on how to trade, so it’s like I got to make it perfect. It like if it keeps going up, there should be a certain timing or some sort of timing that’s going to get me the maximum profit, but it just never pans out, and I’m just going to get frustrated. I’m consistently frustrated.
Clay: You made the comment earlier that you never had any fool’s good. It sounds to me like you had winning opportunities. You just never locked in any of those games.
James: I had a lot of ego, Clay. I had a crap ton of ego. I had a lot of ego.
Clay: I mean, it sounds like you have some denial, too. I mean, you’re saying you never had any fool’s gold. I don’t know. It sounds like you had those winning trades, but you go just, I mean-
James: I would say I probably had a bit more of a … I think a lot of my fool’s gold is more of an unrealized kind of fool’s gold. So, I never really took them.
Clay: Yeah. So, it sounds like it wasn’t fool’s gold. It was pure chaos with some greed sprinkled in. Is that a fair summary?
James: I think this is a better way to put it. My losses were just far greater than my gains over a consistent period of time. That goes in with the bleeding. I do make money at some moments, and there’s this uptrend, and then immediately, a week later, it’s gone. It goes through the red.
Clay: I mean, you mentioned earlier, but pretty much reading between the lines, when I hear a pharmaceutical stock from $5 to $10, I mean, you were looking for a huge score.
James: I wasn’t looking for a huge score. I thought I was able to time this certain peaks in valleys. That’s how I processed the information at that time. It’s like thinking that, I mean, I never really thought of myself as I am part of the market and people have already anticipated that it might be going up. So, sometimes the market doesn’t behave in a rational manner. So, it might not happen I think a certain point of time.
Clay: Okay. So, this is just pure chaos, pure chaos. There’s no other way to put it. At what point did it dawn on you? You looked in the mirror and you’re like, “All right, James. This is pure chaos. You don’t know what you’re doing. My account is bleeding.” Did you have some sort of trade that brought that about or what actually had you finally admitting to yourself that everything was just pure chaos and randomness, and there’s no consistency at all?
James: So, there’s multiple steps that went through this realization. So, at first, in Robin Hood, they have the cash account, they have the margin, and then they have the Robin Hood gold. So, I was trying to get into the Robin Hood instant, and that’s a limited margin. At that point of time, I was unhappy that I wasn’t able to trade everyday as much as I can with the margin account because it began to tell me, “You can only make three trades without being in the Pattern Day Trading Rule for stocks.”
James: So, I guess I went on YouTube, and I guess I typed in the Pattern Day Trading Rule. I’ve seen some videos and the one that I stuck through because he’s been making a lot of videos is this guy with a white T-shirt on, behind him is a chalkboard talking about the Pattern Day Trading Rule.
Clay: Old school. Awesome.
James: I wonder who that was. I wonder who that was.
Clay: That’s an old school video you’re talking … So, actually, what year are we in when this is all going on?
James: It was just 2015.
Clay: Holy smokes! You’ve been around a while then.
Clay: I didn’t realize. Okay. 2015. All right. That’s a good reference point there. Yeah. That was, I mean, even in 2015, that was a pretty old school video.
Clay: All right. So, you’re listening to some clown who wears a white T-shirt in front of a chalkboard. What did that clown have to say?
James: He talked about using a cash account and using options. At that point of time, when you don’t know what you don’t know, you make really, really … I made really, really dumb assumptions. So, when I heard the word “options”, I thought it was actually some kind of … I was like, “Oh, just deal with it.” I don’t know. It was weird, but eventually, I understood what you actually meant when you wrote down options on the chalkboard. So, I got into options, and it was just … Yeah.
James: At that point, I delved in a bit with options, but I realized that I didn’t have some sort of strategy, and because you have preached a lot about the use of charts, technical analysis, and trading without the motion, that’s where I slowly begin to realize the importance of education.
Clay: So, did you start to trade options at that point?
James: Yeah, but it was small. It was a $300 account. I mean, this is really the Achilles’ heel for me. It really killed me because options, without a good strategy, it’s going to kill you or it’s going to … It very much killed me.
Clay: Okay. I was going to-
James: It was a $300 account, so I wasn’t below. I mean, I did blow up half of it in a matter of a week, but Chez warned me about that, and I didn’t listen to him.
Clay: Yeah. Okay. Now, it sounds safe to say that you were a member of the inner circle then at this point.
Clay: Okay. So, you were in the chat room or something. Chez warned you about options, and you just said, “Whatever. I’m going to go and do it,” and then you blew up your account or half of your account in a week.
Clay: Okay. So, now at this point, you just have a stock account that’s been bleeding to death, and all of a sudden, you have an options account that you halfway blown up. So, where did you go from there?
James: Well, I talked to you about it. I mean, you’ve probably forgotten about this conversation, but I was thinking about-
Clay: What year did it take place?
James: I was chatting on the website, and-
Clay: Was this back in 2015 still?
James: It was 2016ish.
Clay: Okay. Three years ago, yeah. No offense, James, I probably have no recollection of this. I can barely remember yesterday.
James: I think I’m comfortable with that.
Clay: Okay. I appreciate you understanding.
James: I’m not as embarrassed now. Yeah. So, I talked to you about some sort of like, “Why am I not understanding options or anything?” and then you told me about, “I don’t know. You don’t seem to have a good footing and technical analysis or any sort of strategy that makes you figure out how the price is going to behave on any security.” From that on, I realized I had to go back to the basics and actually purchase … I mean, this is the craziest thing about when a person has a lot of ego. He thinks he knows a lot of things, so he ends up … I ended up buying the options course way before the robotic trading course. I think right now that’s insane.
Clay: Well, it is, but I still-
James: At that time, I had no idea.
Clay: I still commend you. At least you realized that you wanted to and needed to invest into your education. So, yeah, in hindsight, you’re going way out of order, but still, that’s better than, I mean, what a lot of people had done. So, yeah, out of order, yeah, in hindsight that sounds ridiculous, but I mean, at least, ego or no ego, you’re still able to admit to yourself that, “You know what? I probably should make an investment into myself with this whole knowledge thing because I need to figure out what’s going on,” but yeah, you were definitely going out of order. So, you finally invested into robotic trading, and take it from there.
James: Right. So, I realized the importance of candlesticks, the importance of support and resistance. This goes on the contrary to my original assumption on how there’s hills and valleys in a trending security. Once I learned about technical analysis, I begin to develop a habit of finding patterns using certain indicators like the moving averages, the 200 moving average and 50, the RSI. So, I began to learn about those things. It’s a process now. To this day, I’m still trying to skill-sharpen that, trying to master that.
Clay: Okay. So, that was back, though, in 2016ish, you said, so I mean, did you-
James: Listen, I took a break for about a year and a half because I was just so frustrated with the market because I was just losing a lot of money.
Clay: Okay. That makes sense. I was wondering if there’s some sort of break in there because that’s a long time.
James: Yeah. That was my break. That was my break.
Clay: Okay. So, you got frustrated, and then when you took your break, did you totally step away from the market? Were you not paying attention to it at all or I mean, I guess, define break. How much of a break was it?
James: It was basically a mental battle, thinking that I don’t think I can make money in the market. I mean, this is also the problem for me. When I listen to a lot of people on social media, it’s like they’re saying, “Oh, it’s rigged. This is gambling. This is just not worth it. Institutions will beat you every time.” That’s the mental battle. What happens when I expose myself to that kind of stuff? So, that’s the reason as to why I drove away a bit.
Clay: Okay. Well, you now know that those people that are saying that sort of stuff just are all failures that were probably gambling in the first place, right?
James: Well, yes, and the one thing that kept bringing me … Sorry. I’m tongue twisting.
Clay: No problem.
James: The one thing that’s-
Clay: Welcome to my world.
James: The thing that brought me back to trading or reeled me back to trading is and just learning about it all is I know it can be done. I’ve seen people in the inner circle like Hooch, especially Hooch because I’ve seen him in the chat room everyday, and especially you, Clay, with the live trading. I know those are legit trades. Those aren’t fake trades. I thought to myself, “If these guys can do it, I can do it for myself, too, if I take the proper steps to learn and finally create trade setups and trade ideas and keeping track records on all of my trades.”
Clay: Absolutely. You’re absolutely right. Now, what brought you back from the break of like you said about a year and a half? I guess that’s just the question. What ultimately brought you back to the market?
James: I don’t remember. I think it might just be me having a good day. It was basically … I was inevitable to be returning back to the markets because I clung on to the positivity and the motivation that comes with your channel and the people in the pot. I continually still listen to the podcasts when I was still in that mental break. So, once I kept listening and I thought to myself, “Huh, maybe I could actually succeed in the markets.”
Clay: Okay. That makes sense. So, it’s not like it was a straight up cold turkey, “I’m done with the markets and I’m not going to surround myself with anything.” All right. That-
James: Sorry if it was a big explanation, but-
Clay: No, that’s okay. Well, that’s why I’m here. I’m here to make it awkward and press answers out of you. That way, we can all stay on the same page, but no, that makes good sense then. So, it’s not like … That also makes sense why you couldn’t really answer, “Well, what actually brought me back?” Because technically speaking, you never really stepped away per se if you’re always listening to the podcast like you said and everything else. So, I understand where you’re coming from now at that point of view.
Clay: So, you decide, “You know what? I want to get back into it,” whenever that was. So, what’s your next step? You opened up an account and funded it or is that when you bought robotic trading or did the break happen after you purchased robotic trading?
James: I definitely did purchase more courses or robotic trading and skill-sharpening. I mean, I bought individual courses. I mean, if I can go back now, I would pretty much straight up bought CTU all together.
Clay: You chose the expensive route.
James: Well, it’s not just the expensive route. I think in my opinion, I chose the really, really dumb route and unwise route.
Clay: I mean, that was my polite way of saying-
James: I know. I know. You’re being respectful.
Clay: … you could have been smarter in your choices, but I mean-
James: I’m just critical of myself every time I think about it because of all the money that I lost, I could have saved time and money just simply putting 2,000 in right off the bat.
Clay: Isn’t that cruel how it works out like that? I mean, listen, I lost plenty of money, too. So, I will say when I got into real estate investing, I was like, “Okay. I’m going to just put four cups of money right now, invest it, so I don’t find myself getting flattened by any trucks or fall on any pits,” but … All right. So, you come back and … So, you’re at Clay Trader University now then?
Clay: Come on now. What the heck is going on?
James: Okay. So, the thing is because I bought the courses individually, I’m thinking to myself, “Why can’t I buy the remaining ones?” because your website isn’t really working in that manner right now. So, you can only buy all or nothing.
Clay: Have you ever reached out to us, man?
James: I’m sorry.
Clay: Do you know our policy about if you purchase courses in the past?
Clay: Send me an email. We’ll talk.
James: Okay. Okay. No, I think that’s going to be very beneficial-
Clay: Let me answer that for you. That was rhetorical. You have not reached out because we would not be having this … I’ll say, send me an email because yes, you’re right. The new format of the site-
James: Disclaimer, let’s cut this off the podcast. I’m kidding.
Clay: Honestly, though, I’m glad that you brought that up because this is the exact reason why things are structured the way they are because, sure, in hindsight, you’re like, “I went out of order. I should have just done this. I mean, why did I even …” I get it. That’s actually a prime example of why we’ve just packaged it all together because in all actuality, you need the entire package. If you leave a bunch of individual courses out there, then people risk exactly what you just did. So, it was almost … Like I said, that’s why I’m not calling you stupid. I mean, you could have done things smarter-
James: Right, much smarter.
Clay: … but at the time, when you don’t know what you don’t know, I mean, it’s not entirely your fault. So, that is actually why, to listeners-
James: I want to add on to that, too.
Clay: Go ahead.
James: I want to add on to that, too, because in the inner circle, basically, 95% of all the users have CTU. So, it’s hard for me to relate to them in that manner as well. I feel like I’m passing up on an opportunity to be able to connect with them in a business-like manner when it comes to trading.
Clay: Yeah. No. Shoot me email. We’ll talk whatever after this. I’ll explain, but especially given that you volunteer to be on the podcast, I mean, we’ll get things figured out. Okay.
James: I’m taking the blame on that. I think I pretty much … I realize that now that it’s my fault.
Clay: Well, it’s a little bit of everybody’s fault, but my point is I do understand where you’re coming from, and then from a listener listening in, especially if you’ve been a listener since seeing the site before when there are individual courses to seeing the site now where there are no more individual courses, James is a perfect example of why we made the change that we did. So, you come at it-
James: It’s a purgatory. It’s a purgatory kind of place.
Clay: Yeah. Exactly, like one foot and all over the place. So, I do understand. So, right now, you are going through courses or you paper trading or what exactly? Because I know you mentioned you’re still trying to figure stuff out, which is fine, but I mean-
James: Well, I have the basics, but I personally believe that I can do much better. That’s where I am right now.
Clay: Now, define … I guess much better, much better compared to what? Are you consistently profitable, but your profits are just not much, so you know you can do much better than that or I guess much better, what’s your baseline as far as what you’re making that comment from?
James: Great question. So, right now, I am trading. I do have a strategy in place. I’m actually keeping records of all of my trades. I always consider the position size that I’m doing. Right now, I’m actually into green, somewhere in the 20% range of my portfolio. So, that’s where I am right now.
Clay: So, you’ve grown your portfolio by 20%?
James: Yes, by 20%.
Clay: What size portfolio did you start off with?
James: It’s 2,000.
Clay: Okay. Cool. Well, no, that’s great. So, now that I get it, so you’ve grown your portfolio by 20%. So, what is that? That’s $400. Okay? So, it’s right around 2400. So, you want to do much better. So, what exactly are you looking to do? What is much better in your eyes?
James: Those remaining courses that I didn’t buy, I think that would help a lot.
Clay: So, you know that there’s still missing stuff out there is what-
James: I mean, okay. To be fair, I do have the fundamental courses like RVR, robotic trading, level two, and the options, the two options courses.
Clay: Did you ever go through RVR trading?
James: Definitely. No, I had to. I had to.
Clay: Okay. So, you invested in the RVR trading course, too?
James: Yeah. I definitely went through RVR. I first paper traded with the right position sizing, and I eventually gone with the trading.
Clay: Okay. That makes sense then. If you had those, especially RVR trading, that’s one that really starts to act as a linchpin, and then with the rest of the stuff. Yeah, that will come back in. I can totally see why you are growing your account, but I also understand your feeling of you want to do much better. I mean, that’s good when people hold themselves to higher standards.
James: So, I don’t have the shorting. I don’t have the volcano. I don’t have-
Clay: Well, honestly, what you don’t have and the reason why I need to be … I told you I need to be done in an hour is the live webinars. You don’t have access to those.
Clay: Those would be super beneficial. You don’t have access to the trading journal. So, that stuff will … Yeah. That stuff would definitely help you out, for sure, especially if you’re already at a place where you’re growing your account. That can only add that much to it, but yeah, we’ll get you figured out. So, what actually is your strategy right now? Are you a day trader? Are you a swing trader? How exactly did you grow your account by 20% so far?
James: So, this is actually my favorite question. So, I realized when I trade, I don’t see myself at least, at least right now as a day trader because I think I’m way too emotional with just the volatility of today and seeing my account in some way just go from … I just lost $70 in less than 12 minutes because I’m doing options. I’m mainly being an option buyer right now. My strategy goes with buying at the final, I mean, the final hour or final 10 minutes of the trading day, and then selling that same security the next morning.
Clay: So, you’re looking for gaps then or-
James: Yeah, I’m looking for gaps. Gaps are very much like my friend in the markets.
Clay: Okay. You mentioned doing most … Most of the time, you’re doing options, which leaves some sort of-
James: No. Actually, it’s all options now. I pretty much ditched stocks because with stocks, it’s like … I guess I’m not trying to down play stocks, but I’m not emotionally wired for the long game, I don’t think at least now.
Clay: Now, when you say the long game, you mean holding for longer periods of time? Are you talking about going long?
James: It’s with long strategies all together. I don’t know. It just doesn’t appease to me with stocks, especially let’s say even if it’s a $5 to $10 stock that I used to do. I mean, it’s so ridiculous now that I think about it, but I like trading an asset that’s dependent on volume and liquidity and just a stable, secure, blue chip stock that I can formulate my strategy around, but I want the upside of options, and plus, with options, I have more decisiveness in terms of the profits and the losses.
James: So, options actually make me more decisive in my trades. With stocks, for me, when it comes to stocks, I always get into this habit of holding and hoping, and I didn’t want that. I didn’t want to put myself in that position. So, with options, if I’m seeing a position that’s losing, I just cut it. So, I’m actually far more unemotional with options than with stocks.
Clay: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming that theta has something to do with that, too, when it’s working against you from the long side.
James: Yes. The thing about theta, with theta, I guess, for me, I don’t feel very … If I’m on a losing trade, I get into this mindset of theta. It’s there. It’s there, and it’s going to affect my bottom line for each of the trades, but ultimately, my strategy formulates around getting right into the delta and the gamma, and taking advantage of directional moves.
Clay: That makes perfect sense. Now, for listeners out there, you maybe still wondering, “How can options help him be more disciplined?” I’m not turning this into an options podcast, but in options, there’s certain things with the way the market moves where if you sit there and hold and hope, which is what James admits you could possibly do with stocks, but if you hold and hope with options, the way they work is that works against you. So, you don’t want to sit there and hold and hold and hold because as you hold and hold and hold, with the way the option market works, that is going to hurt you.
Clay: So, because James understands that and because James realizes that, he doesn’t want to just hold and hold and hold because he knows that, so I’m just going to get out. So, because of that, yeah, it does make cutting losses easier to do. It becomes being disciplined easier to do because you can’t sit here and you’re absolutely right, the stock trading voice of just hold and wait it out. Well, in stocks, that doesn’t hurt you. There’s nothing working against you, but in options, not the case.
Clay: So, I mean, that makes perfect sense why you would want to put yourself in a situation like you said that forces you to be more disciplined, that forces you to just cut the loss. I mean, that’s great stuff. That makes perfect sense.
James: One prime example with that would be with Tesla and I think recently, right now, Tesla has been having this terrible gap river. So, there’s definitely a lot of people hoping that a stock would go back up. It’s like, “Oh, it’s going to go back up.” So, from my own mindset, it’s like, “No.” I think a person should cut it because it’s not in the strategy, but I don’t know. I’m just leeching at this point.
Clay: No, I think you’re absolutely right. From your perspective, if you’re doing Tesla options, you would just be like, “There’s no point in holding and hoping this thing turns around because theta is working against me.”
James: Well, not the Tesla options, but the stock itself. It may broke the support line. It just goes all the way back into the valley.
Clay: Right, but to your point, though, had you been doing the stock, you could have fallen into the trap of just hold and hope, hold and hope, hold and hope, and you’d be getting absolutely roasted, but by trading the Tesla options, because of we just discussed the way they work, you’re like, “Pfft! I’m not going to hold and hope. I’m just going to get out.” Because of that, you’ve saved yourself a whole lot of money because you’re absolutely right, the people that listen to this, the stock voice that says, “Just hold and hope. Just hold. Just hold. It will go back up.”
Clay: Tesla, right now, they’re getting absolutely roasted. So, I mean, you’re absolutely right in that regard. That’s actually a great example as of the recording of this. Who knows? By the time this goes public, maybe Tesla is back up at $800 a share, but as of right now, you really cannot get a better example of that. So, that’s good. That’s something that … That’s one of those-
James: Breaks the support, cut it. Break the resistance, cut it.
Clay: Exactly, because there’s no point in-
James: A very simplistic way of saying things. Obviously, there’s more than just support and resistance.
Clay: Correct. There’s more to it, but as far as a generalized thought process, you’re absolutely correct. Options do help with that. So, I mean, as a listener out there, maybe this doesn’t sound like that much of a little nugget of gold, but I’m telling you, from a very … This can save you a big headache. If you’re just out there and saying, “Ah! I’m always holding and hoping. I’m always holding and hoping.” I mean, that’s okay. Recognize that that’s something that you struggle with and you need to improve on, and also maybe consider learning more about options and the options market because you will quickly learn that holding and hoping is not going to work because there’s things that will work against you.
Clay: So, that could be, like I said, the little nugget that James has talked about that you needed to hear and maybe needed to realize that, “Hey, maybe that could help me with my struggle of always holding and hoping.” So, I mean, the options market may very well be what you want to do.
Clay: So, you mentioned earlier that you like to trade more so just established companies, which makes sense given your prior history of trading $5 to $10 pharmaceutical company and all that skeptical stuff. So, do you only have five to 10 stocks you’re looking at or how do you find the stocks which you’ll then trade their options during the final part of the day? Because as you said, you’re looking for those gaps, so how do you find the actual stocks?
James: Usually, I actually start with the framework of there’s these certain stocks. It’s going back into … I think you have a video that’s called Being Romantic with Options. So, for me, that’s my bread and butter in terms of formulating a strategy. So, I stick my strategy with a limited amount of the underlying asset. So, it would be the SPY, the Tesla, Bubba, AAPL, I mean, not really AAPL. I do change it up a bit, but I stick my-
James: AAPL, AAPL.
Clay: Oh, AAPL. Okay. I’m like, “APL? What’s APL?” Yeah, AAPL, AAPL. Got it. So, it’s AAPL, Bubba, Netflix, Tesla, SPY, Facebook. Okay. So, all those very, very liquid ones. Do you ever do the Qs at all? QQQ?
James: No. I think with a lot of the underlying assets, they’re very systematic. What I mean by that is that when … There’s not a lot of difference between, let’s say, DIA and SPY. I mean, it’s similar in terms of movement, if you know what I mean.
Clay: No, I know exactly … Yup. I know exactly what you mean.
James: So, I tend to find blue chips, and then three, four sets of companies with a bit of a variance to it. So, Tesla moves a bit different from SPY, SPY a big different from Netflix, that sort of thing.
Clay: By narrowing down your focus to, like you said, the select group, you still get to know all their personalities a little bit better.
James: Yeah, and the tendencies on how it moves.
Clay: Exactly. Yup. No, that’s what I always … I mean, I’m not going to say those people are wrong, but sometimes people are like, “Oh, yeah. I’m trading this option. I didn’t even know that stock had options attached to it,” but apparently, they’re all, but like I said, if it works for them, that’s fine, but I definitely think that the more efficient way to go is to find a limited amount, and then just to keep an eye on those because from a listener perspective-
James: Yes. That’s correct.
Clay: … you got to keep them, well, if you only watch five stocks, how are you going to get … Just I’m telling you within the world of options, yeah, it is maybe just one ticker symbol, but within that ticker symbol, it branches that branch out, and there’s many choices within that very ticker symbol. I promise it’s not nearly as confusing as it may be comes across. Options is something that, yeah, as long as you go about it and learn it in a structured way, anybody can learn how to do it.
Clay: Now, I’m getting the impression that because you have the limited amount that some days you’re just not putting on any trades at all because I’m assuming that not every single day, one of those stocks or ticker symbols, ETFs looks like it’s going to gap the next day or you’re usually putting on … I guess, how often are you putting on trades?
James: Yes. Okay. Okay. So, there’s definitely few days where I don’t put trades at all. If I’m quite confused on how the trend is going or the price action is going or volume, and at times, I have a range of the position size that I want. So, it’s about two to four contracts that are on the $1 range, and they’re about a week or over a week until expiration. So, that’s where my play is.
James: Sometimes if a security is going to the direction where I really, really, really think is going to go, I strengthen my position a bit. If I’m a bit more confused or if I’m just absolutely confused, I don’t trade at all.
Clay: Okay. I was hoping you were going to say, “I just go small size.”
James: However, I do understand that there’s no such thing as a 0% or 100% play, where even with a price action or on a security, it can definitely go absolutely the other way, and I just have to accept it. That’s a loss and I have to cut it. There’s no guarantee. There’s no promises.
James: In the past, especially when I’m inexperienced, I’m always hoping and my emotions are on the extremes and I’m like, “Come on. This has got to happen. This must work.” Now, I build a position on a certain option contract and I’m like, “Yeah. It’s likely to go up, but, eh, it could not work out.” It’s like, “Yeah.” There’s that various, “Eh.” It’s far less emotional. It’s more rational in my thinking.
Clay: No. It was beautifully said. I mean, the market makes no promises.
James: There’s no promises. Yeah.
Clay: I mean, technically, the market doesn’t make a promise. The only promise the market makes is there is no guarantee, but besides that, I mean, you nailed it. I like your sound effects. It’s like-
James: By the way, sorry about the background. Sorry about the background if you hear anything.
Clay: Oh, that’s okay. No, you’re good. You’re good. I like your sound effects of “Eh” because that’s really what trading is, is you have to acknowledge the “Eh” voice because yeah, just because you have the perfect setup, there is that “Eh” that exists out there that doesn’t mean that it’s going to totally turn out the way you think it is, which goes back to your whole point of why you got to be focused on risk, managing risk, and just being like, “All right. Yeah. That ‘Eh’ got me and I got to cut it and move on.” That doesn’t make you a bad trader at all. That makes you a good trader. That makes you a trader that’s putting together a game plan. I mean, that will explain why we’re six months into 2019 and you have 20% account growth. So, do you-
James: I want to add one a bit on that.
James: Especially with the losses in the past when I lose money, I was really, really sad, but now, if a loss is controlled, if I’m only taking a small loss on a contract because I followed my strategy and trade plan, I’m actually quite happy. It’s like, “This loss is actually pretty good. It’s not destroying my capital like it was in the past.” Because I actually have a 41% win rate on the strategy that I’m doing now. Yet, I’m into green.
Clay: Really? I’m not shocked, but you’re up 20% by only winning 40% of the time. Now, that’s very possible.
James: My goal is to increase that win rate a bit, definitely not 100%, but-
Clay: Oh, absolutely. You should. I will fully support you. We should always be looking to increase our win rates, but that also perfectly illustrates why on the show and why just around Clay Trader universe or whatever you want to call it, we’re always about risk management, risk control, focus on your risk. I get it. Talking about winners is so much more exciting, but if you focus on risk, then yeah, you can have a 41% win rate like James has and yet still be up 20% on your account.
Clay: I also find it fascinating. You’re absolutely right. Listeners, just take James’ word for it. The reason that he does feel so good about those losses is because he has the reference point, like he said, of just taking those, seeing his account just poof, poof, but just take James’ word for it. You don’t need to see your account go poof before you start to realize to focus on risk management. Take my word for it. Take James’ word for it. Take many guests’ word for it.
Clay: Just you focus on risk management and, yeah, it’s not pleasant as really to take a loss, but James is right. It can get a lot worse, right? If you don’t take those losses, then I mean, like you said, your account can take a beat and in a hurry.
James: Well, especially like now. I used to not keep track of my trading records. So, I mean, my trades, I didn’t keep track of my trades in the past. So, back then, I was way more emotional, and I have to have this superhero mentality. It’s like, “I got to get all this money back,” but I’m not doing that anymore. I’m actually thinking about, “Okay. Consistently, this is what’s happening with the portfolio that I have,” and I’m looking at all these gains and losses. It’s like, “Oh, okay.” So, my win rate is actually less than 50%, but I’m actually still in the green. I would have not realized those small details had I not keep track of my progress.
Clay: No, you’re absolutely right. There’s great power in just keeping a trade log or a journal, just keeping track of things like you’re doing. Now, what’s one of your bigger wins that you’ve had?
James: Let me check here. How long is this podcast is moving?
Clay: I will rudely cut you off when I need to cut you off, so don’t you worry. I am ready to pull out the jerk card and just be like, “Listen. Soon. Soon, we’ll move on to the fun questions,” because I mean, we’re almost at an hour, anyways, which is good.
James: Okay. Right. So, so, I actually keep track of the individual romances, I call it. So, right now, with the SPY, I think my biggest gain would be 320 points.
James: No, not percent, dollars. So, it’s 320 points, 300, and 288 on Bubba. So, those are my big gains. My losses, there’s this one ginormous loss, but that day, I did not follow my trade plan. I got a bit emotional, and I put seven contracts, and it killed me for $425, but that was it.
Clay: So, that was an important lesson about position sizing then.
James: Yeah. Well, I was so emotional because there’s a reason why it was at the very … That’s why I formulate my entry at the very tip end of the trading day. So, once I put a position, I stop. I don’t look at it until the next day.
Clay: The lesson learned there for listeners is the one loss that was really, really big was because you just upped your position size way bigger than you normally do. Is that a fair understanding?
James: Right. It could have been a gain. I mean, the market could have went the other way, and that one trade could have been my largest winning trade. However, it’s still a bad trade.
Clay: Well said. I was going to say, “Well, but still, but you caught yourself,” and you’re absolutely right. I mean, that’s just-
James: Yeah. I was upset. Once I made that trade, I was absolutely upset about it.
Clay: So, but like I said, the moral of the story there, that’s another one of those little bits of gold right there, listeners. A strategy can boom, boom, boom, be working, and then all of a sudden, you tweak something such as position size or scale up too fast, and all of a sudden, it can put a hurting on you, but I’m glad that you’re able to bounce back from it. So, what’s your average loss size? I’m guess right around probably $50 to $75?
James: Yes or somewhere in that range. Sometimes I do get 150, 167. Those are my … I mean, other than the $425 loss, my biggest loss was 167, and that was right with the strategy of my position sizing. So, yeah.
Clay: Yeah, and that’s a huge difference from 425 to 167. I mean, can you imagine if you would have done that with that position size, and that would have just been a normal position size, I mean, that’s a penny saved as a penny earned. That’s another $200.
James: I’m still kicking myself. I’m still kicking myself on that trade.
Clay: Well, good. Make sure you … Let me rub some more salt on the wound. That way, you remember to avoid that from here on out, but well, that’s awesome, but it goes to show that even with a blunder and only being right 41% of the time, you’re still up 20%, and I like how you’re still just off the mentality of, “But I want to do better, and I know there’s more out there for me to do,” and you’re in the right mindset.
Clay: I will say this. This, not that I never had hope for you, but the way this journey started off pure pandemonium, pure just utter unadulterated chaos and now, I mean, this is a good solid rational discussion we’ve had. So, I mean, come in full circle and like I said, I like where your mindset is at realizing that you want to do better, and there’s more out there for you, and we’re going to get all that taken care of for you is what I mean.
James: Yeah. Thank you.
Clay: That’s good. I would say you are … Are you going to listen back to this? I know some people are worried about their like, “I don’t want to hear my voice,” but do you plan on listening on this episode?
James: I actually don’t like my own voice, but we’ll see. I’ll see. I’ll see.
Clay: Okay. Well, if you do listen to it, I guarantee you’re going to be like, “Holy smokes! I started off pure chaos, and then at the end …” I mean, good, solid points you’re making. Good, solid, I mean, this was good. I like these ones that start off the way they do and then they end like this, which is perfect.
Clay: See, James, like I said, I know how to be rude, and I know how to end the interview, but I’m not even being rude about it. You’re going to have to come back, though, again, right? You’ll come back and update us.
James: For years to come. For years to come.
Clay: Excellent. Well, I mean, I do have a little bit of an issue. You’ve been around since-
James: I’m a bit optimistic. I’m a bit optimistic.
Clay: Well, I’m going to be a little pessimistic here. You’ve been around since 2015, and we’re just now talking four years later. Come on, James. We’re not waiting till 2023 until you come back, okay? Will you at least promise me that?
James: No excuses. No excuses.
Clay: There you go. No excuses, but there’s a time machine, and if you were to take this time machine back to the start, what would be that one bit of advice that you would give yourself?
James: I think I said this already.
Clay: You did, but feel free to say it again because it was a good point.
James: Well, I would add one more thing, but okay. So, first, I would just straight up buy CTU and not trade at all, don’t even look at stocks and whatever, and to really be skeptic of what you hear out there with the markets and the perception. I mean, definitely, false truths and half truths are bad, but it’s also when I’m exposing myself to people in the comment section, in any type of social media, it’s just bad for me mentally. I would have told my younger self that right from the get-go.
Clay: No. That’s a great point. I mean, I’m 99, eh, I’ll call it 97% over social media, and I’ve learned to just laugh, but also admit that 3% of the time where you come-
James: I did not go to stock puts. I did not go to stock puts.
Clay: Okay. Well, that’s good. That’s good.
James: That was the one thing that I actually did not do. I’m actually glad I never went to stock puts. I could have had a far different perception of Clay Trader.
Clay: I mean, yeah, I’m like Darth Vader. I mean, it is what it is, but I do understand where you’re coming from as far as social media and how it can screw with your mind and stuff like that. As soon as you get the reference point, which you now know, it’s like, “Okay. All those people who’s saying it’s rigged or it’s this …” No. It’s because you treated the market like a casino. You got your face pounded in, but you don’t want to blame, you don’t want to tell people that you treated the market like a casino. So, you’re just going to say that it’s rigged.
James: I think the popular one would probably be the PDT rule. I think people make the excuse like, “Oh, because there’s no PDT. It’s rigged against us. It’s for people with lord and $100,000.” It’s because people don’t have the actual strategy.
Clay: No. Well, I mean, you’re getting me a little fired up over here.
James: It’s a bad excuse.
Clay: You’re absolutely right. Well, I don’t qualify for the PDT. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s a terrible rule. I’m not going to debate that, but to James’ point, there’s still plenty of other ways that you can go within the market, and be under the PDT rule and still have success and still learn how to trade and still be able to grow money. So, I mean, you’re absolutely right. People that are using the PDT rule as their excuse, no. Excuse denied. That’s all I’m going to say in regards to that because there are plenty of other ways out there.
Clay: All right. Well, let’s move into some fun questions here. What is your favorite movie?
James: Going down to memory lane, I’m going to be definitely bias, but I mean, I like all those Spider-Man movies, but mainly Tobey Maguire.
Clay: Tobey Maguire is Spider-Man.
James: The 2002, 2004, 2007. The trilogy, basically. I like those Spider-Man movies. So, if I had to pick one or pick three, it doesn’t matter, I would pick those three.
Clay: Nice. Nice. What about your favorite food and dessert?
James: Homemade crab. Roasted crab.
Clay: You guys have crabs out in California?
James: No. We bought it off. I like seafood. So, I pick crab.
Clay: Nice. Nice. Then final question, three words-
James: What was the other question?
Clay: Oh, dessert, dessert.
James: Oh, dessert. Yeah, I’m okay with anything. I’d take ice cream.
Clay: I mean, it’s hard to go wrong with ice cream. So, I’m with you right there. Then finally, three words, and these three words needed to be what you would describe an associate with what you believe successful trader, it takes to be successful, what were those three words be?
James: Trade without … No, I’m kidding. I’m not going to use your motto.
Clay: Whatever you do. If you want to use it-
James: Try anything out in motion. No, I’m not going to use those. No, but it’s definitely skepticism, discipline, and wisdom, those three.
Clay: I like it. I like it a lot. Those are some solid three words. That’s a great way to end things. So, please listen. I’ll just say that. I know you don’t like your voice, and I totally get it. I don’t like my voice either, but if you listen to it, you’ll notice this full circle aspect that really plays out. James, you already agreed to come back again, and not wait four years. So, I look forward to getting more updates from you. Thank you again for, like I said, volunteering to be here. I really appreciate it.
James: Yeah. Listen, I appreciate for the opportunity to be here as well. I never thought I’d actually be in a podcast. I remember myself driving to my part-time listening to Clay Trader, but now, I’m actually in it. So, it’s really cool. It’s a really nice experience. Thank you, Clay.
Clay: Good. Well, I’m glad you had a good time. Thank you for … Now, you’re going to be coming out of the stereo system, but yeah. We’re going to have you back. So, this will hopefully be the first of many more. For you listeners out there, before you go, final few things, if you’re listening on iTunes or any other podcast players, make sure to subscribe so you are notified whenever a new content comes out, especially on iTunes, if you could leave a rating or especially a comment, that really, really helps us out, and we appreciate it very much so.
Clay: If you’re listening at claytrader.com, on the show notes page, then there is a live chat box right there. So, feel free to reach out to us, questions, comments, feedback, whatever, and we will reply back to you, but we really do appreciate your support, and anything you can do to help us out, but like I said, especially on iTunes. A rating goes a long, long way.
Clay: So, thank you again to you as listeners. Thank you, Justin. Is your name James? What is your name? Why did I just forget your name? What is your name?
James: James. James.
Clay: James. James. Why did I think Justin?
James: It’s okay. it’s okay. it’s all right.
Clay: No. I’m trying to think. Episode, what is this? 200 something. It finally happened. I forgot the guest’s name during the outro.
James: Oh, my goodness!
Clay: I was looking at Sleethes, Sleethes. I was like, “Who is this Sleethes guy?”
Clay: Sleethes. Yeah. See? Aren’t you glad? That’s exactly why I didn’t want to try to pronounce the whole way.
James: I still have a letter on my profile. So, I’m probably going to change that soon. So, there you go.
Clay: No. You can’t. No, that’s good. It’s a good name. Now, I’ll never forget it, but thank you again. Thank you for listeners. It’s only the hardcore people who stick around to the very end just got to see me embarrass myself like this, but thank you for not judging me. It’s good to not be judged for just forgetting your name for a quick second there. Thank you very much. Awesome. Awesome. I’m going to leave it in. I could have edited it out, but no. We’ll just keep it in there, but thank you, listeners. We will see you back next week.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the Clay Trader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit claytrader.com.