Via Clay Trader

If you want to be a fly on the wall and listen to traders “talk trading”, then this will be the episode for you. In this episode, I talk with longtime member Ryan (better known as “Mico” in the community). Sure, it was an interview as I did ask the questions, but most was just us talking strategy and offering up thoughts and opinions. We talk bitcoin, microcaps, shorting, position sizing, mental stops and a whole lot more! Ryan, just like all of us, has had some time toughs but thanks to his honesty we have ourselves some great nuggets of wisdom. Let’s get to it!


Clay: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, Episode 221.
Announcer: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. This is your host, most of the time he is referred to as Thanos, and he wears a ridiculous plastic glove and a bed sheet, ClayTrader.
Clay: Yeah. If you could start to refer to me Thanos too, I would probably reply back much better.
Clay: A little context here, the main thing with my kids is usually I just watch on YouTube, the coming attractions for all the Marvel and comic book movies, because my oldest is seven, Joy. They’re not exactly old enough to watch the comic book movies, but I may or may not have shown them a scene from Infinity War, and for you comic book people out there, it’s the one where Thanos and Hulk fight each other at the very beginning. I may or may not have shown them that scene. I cannot confirm nor deny I showed them the scene. But after that, I’m Thanos.
Clay: If you remember the scene, Thanos, spoiler alert, picks up Hulk over his head and then slams him into the ground. That’s my role is I got to pick them up over my head, then I got to do a 360 a couple times for the camera effect like they did in the movie, and then I slam them down on pillows, or a bed or whatever. But yeah, I am now pretty much … I’m no longer dad. I am Thanos and I’m always either fighting Spider-Man, or Iron Man, or Thor, or Hulk, or Black Widow or whoever. Never really Ant-Man. Sorry, Ant-Man. But, so yeah. That’s my new thing now is just I play the role of Thanos. But it’s a good time and it’s funny how kids’ minds, like they really are geniuses.
Clay: You’re walking in the store and all of a sudden they’re like, “Hey look, it’s Thanos. Oh. Hey look, it’s so and so.” You’re like, “What?” Then you see on a can, 30 yards away, a half inch big, I guess yeah, there is a picture of Thanos right there, Spider-Man right there. It’s crazy how their minds work, but yeah. Just please call me Thanos from here on out.
Clay: As for our guest today, it was a good one. It was an interview but then it almost was an interview. It’s just like a discussion between two traders. I gave my insights and I had a really good time with it. The time flew by very, very quickly. I don’t think I know … Well, if you heed what we talk about, there is definitely some good nuggets of wisdom in here that both Ryan and I could relate to. His name is Mico. I’m throwing myself off. In the chatroom he goes by Mico, M-I-C-O. His real name is Ryan though, as I’ll talk about. But anyways.
Clay: We were talking about things that we could both relate to. Like I said, there’s some nuggets in there that I bring up that if you listen to what we’re talking about and if you apply what we’re talking about, it’s going to save you some headaches, it’s going to save you some money because it’s definitely tough lessons that both of us had to learn. Definitely stay for the … listen to the whole thing and there’s a lot of good stuff.
Clay: I will say though that Mico, what were you doing with your Bitcoin, man? Come on, Mico. I’m just giving him a hard time. Without further ado, let’s hear about Mico and his journey.
Clay: Mico, welcome to the show.
Ryan / Mico: Hi.
Clay: Now your name is Ryan, but I really know you as Mico.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Am I going to throw you off if I call you Mico, or if I call you Ryan? Do you have any preference of what you would like for me to call you?
Ryan / Mico: Either, or. Whatever suits you better.
Clay: Okay, so you will reply to both. You won’t be offended or anything like that?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. I’m not looking to start any drama here, okay. I want to make sure that we get off on the right foot. But thank you for being here. We are recording this on a Friday afternoon, so things have slowed down a little bit. Did you make any trades today?
Ryan / Mico: One trade on SBOT.
Clay: Oh yeah. Well that was [inaudible 00:04:12].
Ryan / Mico: Pretty much just nailed a short, a little scalp. Got about 22 cents off of it.
Clay: There were shares to short? Did you just call Lightspeed?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. Well I sent an email in during the pre-market. I was actually surprised to get the shares.
Clay: Yeah, no kidding. It was three … You email in Lightspeed and do you request … Do yo have to pay extra for those? How does it work? I’ve never emailed in Lightspeed.
Ryan / Mico: No. Pretty much all I do is I’ll go through the gap scanner, see what’s up, what are the low floaters. I’ll just compile a list and I’ll send them an email. If anything else shows up throughout the day on scan, I’ll just go ahead and I’ll call them and request some shares. It’s totally free. I don’t have to pay anything for them, which is great.
Clay: That is nice minus the hassle factor of having to call them. But do you call a certain number or what email do you send it to?
Ryan / Mico: I just call Lightspeed’s customer service line.
Clay: Okay.
Ryan / Mico: But yeah, sometimes it is pretty inconvenient, depending on what shows up on the scans, a lot of the pop and drops. Just by the time I get the locates, it’s already done. Sometimes the platform might have some locates, and I’ll try and go through that route. I try to avoid that because having to pay for locates, but I guess I’m spoiled by having pre-locates.
Clay: Yeah. I suppose that I think about it, it’s a hassle. But I don’t know. It’s probably not a hassle if it takes you 10 minutes out of your day to score a quick hundred bucks or something like that because you’re able to get some share. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose. I think most people would gladly, in 10 minutes or however long it takes you to do that, if they walk away with who knows, maybe even 50 bucks, 100 bucks, 200 bucks. I suppose that is just all a matter of preference.
Clay: Yeah, SBOT. I’m actually pretty shocked you were able to get some on that, but I feel like every single stock today pretty much acted like SBOT. At least in that price range with the gap up and then pretty much just fell apart. Well, good. I’m glad your one trade, green on the day. That way you won’t … It seems like you’re in a halfway decent mood.
Ryan / Mico: Ah, yeah. It’s been a good week overall. I’ve been green every day. Could have been really green, but you know, I ended up giving back a lot of gains on Tuesday and Wednesday. Not too happy about that, but ended both day green. So can’t really complain.
Clay: Yeah. You’re always going to give up some gains. It is what it is. I’m sure we’ll get to … If we have some time we’ll see how this goes, but maybe I’ll press a little bit more on the experience that happened earlier this week.
Clay: But let’s actually get back to the start of everything. I know you’ve listened, you said, to many episodes. You know what question is coming, but where did all this start for you, where did you first hear about the markets, and then what things played out that got you interested enough to the point where you wanted to get more hands on with it?
Ryan / Mico: Okay. I guess my very first experience was back in 2011, back when Bitcoin was just starting to get going. I happened to buy about 200 Bitcoins for about 1,000 bucks. They were about five bucks a piece at that point. About six months goes by and Bitcoin was at about 15 bucks. I essentially cashed out, I tripled my money.
Clay: Idiot. Idiot.
Ryan / Mico: From an investment standpoint, I mean [crosstalk] to make 300% in six months is ridiculous.
Clay: No, that’s awesome.
Clay: Yeah, oh. Absolutely.
Ryan / Mico: Of course with hindsight, I totally missed out on millions. But anyway.
Clay: I got to say, that may be the biggest hindsight we’ve had on this show. Maybe we’ve had other people that loaded up at Bitcoin at five bucks, but I don’t think we necessarily did. But I’m just giving you a hard time. I fully agree. I mean, 300% on your money. Good old hindsight, but ouch. Ouch.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I was thinking about it today. I even actually tried to trade the Bitcoin on the MT Gox exchange when it was going on. I guess they had a little platform where you could actually trade on the exchange. I tried it out a little bit here and there, and I just found out that I’m just slowly bleeding out and losing money overall. I just pretty much chalked it up to, “Oh man, trading’s just gambling.” This is way before I even knew anything about technical analysis and that it even existed at the time.
Ryan / Mico: After Bitcoin, there was pretty much a huge gap where it’s just like, “Okay, whatever.”
Clay: What brought you to Bitcoin though? Did you grow up knowing what the market was? Because I’d understand if you were telling me this was two years ago when my dad was asking me about Bitcoin, because Bitcoin was literally in the headlines everywhere and all that. But how did you even stumble across Bitcoin back when it was at $5? Where did that come? That’s crazy because if I’m being honest, I probably had no idea what Bitcoin was back in 2011. That’s eight years ago.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I had read some articles on it. There was some speculation about it, but then a lot of the articles I read about it also had something to do with an underground market. I got interested in the underground market and pretty much all the Bitcoins went towards that, in a sense. Pretty expensive parting, looking back.
Clay: Yeah, yeah. All right, so what are you … I’m going to keep going down the rabbit hole. You’re reading about underground markets and all this sort of stuff, what kind of sites are you on where you’re coming across … Maybe this is true, but do you think Elvis is still alive?
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: But do you get what I … How did you even end up on a site that was talking about Bitcoin back eight years ago? Clearly, good on you. You made 300% on it. I’m just wondering how you even came across articles? What were you looking for where you came across an article like that? I guess is probably the best way to ask the question.
Ryan / Mico: Oh man, I don’t even remember at this point.
Clay: I do realize it’s eight years ago.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, yeah.
Clay: Okay, but somehow you just stumbled upon it then and you don’t quite remember exactly [crosstalk] what took …
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Okay.
Ryan / Mico: Pretty much.
Clay: Do you remember, were you just researching the markets in general back then?
Ryan / Mico: Not really. I think probably or most likely I happened to stumble across an article saying somebody had started buying Bitcoin when it was 50 cents, 80 cents, and they made ridiculous returns on it.
Clay: That’s true from 50 cents.
Ryan / Mico: I guess by the time it started getting up to the dollar, a few dollar range, there was some things here and there about it.
Clay: That’s true. It was probably one of those … Because I think of you can be on … I [inaudible] for Ohio State football. Then on those sites, those sites make money through ad revenue. Sometimes you have the goofy articles down below that don’t have anything to do with anything. But if you click on them, obviously they’re getting … Maybe it was one of those articles where you were looking at something totally different, then you’re like, “Such and such is up 500% on Bitcoin.” You’re thinking, “Oh.”
Clay: Anyways, fascinating thought that you literally gotten a Bitcoin and heard about it when it was back at $5.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. Almost the ground floor.
Clay: Which is true though. Yeah, that’s crazy. That’s crazy. But regardless, 300%, not too bad.
Clay: All right, so you were in Bitcoin and then you said kind of … What happened after that? Your account started to bleed and then you stepped away from the market, or pick it up back up from there?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I was just trying to look at the chart and everything just looked random to me on the exchange. It was just completely emotional trading with no plan or anything like that. After I just started losing money, I just gave up. I was like, “This is just gambling and I’m just losing, so I’m not going to do this anymore.”
Ryan / Mico: I think a few months went by and I pretty much cashed out the rest of the Bitcoins around 15 bucks. I was slowing peeling, spending it all along the way. I had no idea about trend or anything like that. It was just random prices to me. It was just like, “Okay, Bitcoin’s going up. Oh wow, my Bitcoins are worth more. Cool.”
Clay: You made the comment about you were trying to use the chart and trying to read the chart. How did you even discover charts? I would assume that you were in a Google search, or YouTube, or something like that and it opened up the [crosstalk] pre …
Ryan / Mico: Oh, no. It was just the MT Gox exchange had just charts, candlesticks going up and down. You were able to just buy or trade Bitcoins for US Dollars and back to Bitcoins as much as you wanted. They just took a commission like any broker would. I was just trying to trade on MT Gox for a little bit. It didn’t last long, probably a week.
Clay: You figured out quite quickly that … I want to give you credit. It sounds like you realized very quickly, like you said within a week that, “Yeah, I think I’m just gambling right now. Everything feels so random,” which is a whole lot better than a lot of people do where … I guess I don’t know. Maybe I’m getting too far ahead of myself. Did you still walk away with some profits or did you give everything back?
Ryan / Mico: Oh, I was trading micro size. I just realized that over the trial period I was just losing money, so I just stopped. It was like, “This isn’t for me.”
Clay: But you didn’t give back all your gains.
Ryan / Mico: Oh, no. No, no. Not you know …
Clay: Okay. Well I would say … I realize you say that all nonchalant like, “Well no, I’m not an idiot.” But Mico, have you not listened to the show? Do you not cruise around social media? A lot of people, they admit that it’s gambling after it’s too late and they’re like, “Well, I guess I’m just gambling because I was up X amount but now I’m up actually negative X amount.” Good job to you for … Go ahead.
Ryan / Mico: Well I think the thing was I was never really up at all trading through MT Gox. I never really had any fool’s gold type gains or anything like that.
Clay: You made 300% on Bitcoin now.
Ryan / Mico: Well, no. That was over the long-term. I’m talking about within the week’s span where I actually tried to trade the Bitcoins to make more gains through the intraday action. That wasn’t really working for me.
Clay: Right, but I would still make the argument that I can easily see, and I have seen it where people were like, “Oh, wow. I just made a great long-term, some sort of investment type thing, and I made money on it. Therefore, I’m going to be super good at trading. Let’s just go, let’s get more active.” Then things spin out of control pretty quick.
Ryan / Mico: Oh, no. This is way before I even started cashing out. This was right about when I bought the Bitcoins, and then I seen that you could actually trade them. I was like, “Okay. I guess I could try that.”
Clay: Okay, so this was going on hand in hand then.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, sort of.
Clay: Okay. But regardless, I think my point still stands where I’m trying to give you credit. At least you didn’t go in there and blow up any amount … Again, I’m right. You didn’t blow up any significant amounts of money, right? Because you said you were trading very, very small amounts, right?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. It was pretty much a speculative investment to begin with.
Clay: Right, okay. Still, much better than most people. If there’s a lesson here for you listeners out there, start small. There’s no need for you to rush into anything because … Just start small. That’s the one good thing.
Clay: Well the other good thing you did was you realized very quickly that it was gambling, and you admitted to yourself that it was gambling and random, so you just pulled the plug very, very quickly after a week. A lot of people don’t do that either, so that’s definitely a good sign that you had to just quickly admit that to yourself and reassess the situation.
Clay: You did admit that to yourself and it sounds like you stepped away for a little bit. What ultimately brought you back into the markets and pick back things up from that point?
Ryan / Mico: Okay, so then pretty much fast forward to around 2016. I had a friend, I was having a conversation with on the west coast at the time. He dropped something about day trading. That peaked my interest. I did some research and I came across the big marketer guy, Mr. TS, and started looking at everything he was talking about. I totally bought into the hype. All that marketing was definitely …
Clay: He’s a good marketer.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: He’s a good marketer.
Ryan / Mico: It definitely got me thinking, “Whoa, okay. I only have to trade two hours a day and I can trade from anywhere. Man, this seems like a really great gig.”
Ryan / Mico: I opened an account with about 600 bucks and I started trading. I quickly realized that, “Whoa, I have no idea what I’m doing.” I definitely remember the very first trade I put on was basically catching a fall knife and I ended up bag holding that for about five months before I essentially made about a 5% gain off of it. I guess that’s probably about as good a fool’s gold as I can get with trading or is what I’ve gotten so far.
Clay: How did you find that stock? Did you join this person’s chatroom or were you just out there scanning on your own? How did you even stumble across it?
Ryan / Mico: Okay, so the way I stumbled upon the ticker was I was lurking.
Clay: Do you remember the ticker out of curiosity?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Of course.
Clay: What was it?
Ryan / Mico: It was BPMX.
Clay: Oh, yeah. That’s a classic. They’ve had lots of reverse splits since then, I’m sure, haven’t they?
Ryan / Mico: I have no idea.
Clay: I remember doing a video on it not that long ago at like seven cents. What did you buy it at?
Ryan / Mico: I think I bought it something like 30 cents.
Clay: Okay.
Ryan / Mico: I sold it like 32, 33 cents or something like that. I have no idea. That was also about three years ago now.
Ryan / Mico: But that ticker actually brought me to you because at the time, I guess I was checking out StockTwits. That was the first step in that journey. You had posted a YouTube video on an analysis on BPMX. I watched the video. It was a minute and a half long, and you’re talking all this technical analysis mumbo jumbo, and I’m like, “What is this?” That pretty much got me on the path of being intrigued and trying to understand, well what is technical analysis? How are people utilizing this to be profitable in the market as opposed to just randomly guessing where price is going to go and gambling?
Clay: Did that stuff look familiar to you? Because back in your Bitcoin days, you said you pulled up your platform and there was charts and stuff sitting there. Did any light bulbs go in your mind where you were thinking, “Wait a second, I’ve seen this stuff before”? Had you totally forgotten about the Bitcoin platform?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, I pretty much just put the whole Bitcoin thing aside at that point. I actually didn’t even really remember about that. I was actually trading on it until today.
Clay: Nice, nice. Always good to bring up memory lane here.
Clay: I derailed the conversation a little bit, but how exactly did you come across … How did you find BPMX in the first place?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah, so I was pretty much just lurking around for ticker alerts. That was a ticker that popped up. I pull up the chart and I’m looking at it thinking I know what I’m looking at. At that point, I had an idea of supports and resistances. You want to buy at support and sell at resistance. But that was about as much as I knew at that point.
Clay: Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m assuming you thought you knew what you were looking at because the Mr. Marketer out there, he probably made things sound a little bit maybe easier than what they were. Is that why you thought you knew what you were looking at when [crosstalk] you went into BPMX?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah.
Clay: Is that a fair observation?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Then when it cracked at, basically just sliced right through support, I’m like deer in headlights, like, “Okay, so now what do I do?” I’m waiting.
Ryan / Mico: The original plan was just, “Okay, I’m just going to buy it and sell it when it goes up.” It never went up for months. I’m just waiting day in, day out.
Clay: It sounds silly but to defend Mico here to listeners, that’s why certain marketers out there, certain people, they make things appear one way. It’s his fault, clearly, he pulled the trigger. But I understand where he’s coming from where he was like, “Wait a second, it’s supposed to go down to support and then it’s supposed to go up because that’s what these marketers, that’s what this particular one is essentially implying with all their marketing. And hey, you just got to do this a couple hours a day, and look at all this fanciness.” Things can get mixed quite a bit, but it’s amazing how …
Clay: That’s a great description, a deer in headlights because I can envision it. It’s like, “Okay, yup. It’s going to hit that support and oh. Alrighty then, it just went right down through the support. Now what do I do?” Like you said.
Clay: You said you had to wait about five months for it to come back?
Ryan / Mico: Something like that. Yeah. Well I think at one point, maybe three months down the road, it actually went up past my entry point and I didn’t take profits because I was like, “Okay, now this thing’s going to run now.” It ended up, the next day, just dipping back below. I’m sitting in the bag holder position again. I’m like, “Uh, all right.”
Clay: I love it. Greed is such a tricky bugger. You’re like, “All right. Just get back to break even. Oh, hey. Look, I’m actually okay. I’m a little bit in the green now. Oh, it’s going to go so much bigger.” Ah, greed. A tricky, tricky thing for sure.
Clay: You eventually sell for what? You said, 32 cents or whatever. I guess where do things go from there? Did you take a step back or did you realize that you needed to maybe tap the breaks a little bit? But where did you pick up after the time where you sold BPMX for the 5% gain or whatever that was?
Ryan / Mico: Well I think BPMX was the first trade in, and was probably the last trade out of probably a series of maybe seven or eight trades overall. Yeah, I ended up buying tops and selling bottoms. It was just me getting wrecked. I lost probably about 25% of that small account in not very long. Then yeah, I pretty much took a step back.
Ryan / Mico: In the process of all of that going on, I came across ClayTrader, and started listening in on the podcast. There was a lot of good information through that, because at that point I had gotten a job hauling freight. I was driving around the country, so I had plenty of time to listen to podcasts. There was a lot of good information in there.
Ryan / Mico: One of the things that really helped me, because I know everybody talks about starting off paper trading. I tried it out for a while and I just, for some reason, mentally, psychologically, I just could not get over the mindset that this is just fake money. I felt like I needed to put something on the line to at least make it real.
Ryan / Mico: I know in one of the podcasts somebody had mentioned starting off just trading super small size, like 10 shares and 20 shares. That’s what I did for two to three months. This was about May 2017. That probably helped the most with getting acclimated to trading, and understanding how charts work and everything.
Clay: This was while you still had the job driving around freight? Is that accurate?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was pretty much trading on Robinhood at that point, so there was no commission.
Clay: As you’re driving or you at pit stops?
Ryan / Mico: No. No, no, no. This was pretty much in between jobs when I was waiting for freight or whatever. I’d be sitting in a coffee shop and I’d be pulling up charts.
Ryan / Mico: The whole time, once I found ClayTrader, I was trying to study technical analysis on my own as much information and material I could find. I definitely went the free route because I didn’t join CTU until I think it was October of that year. Everything leading up to there, it was all just trying to make sense of all the free information I could find and trading according to that. But I was using super small size, so it wasn’t like I was blowing up at all.
Clay: Right. Which is smart. I do realize, and that’s why everybody’s different. I could never really argue you have to do paper trading because sometimes it’s just a matter of you got to get a little skin in the game.
Clay: But there’s a big difference between a little skin in the game, like what Mico’s talking about, and then some people I come across where it’s like, “Yeah, I just don’t really want to paper trade.” Then they’re like, “Yeah, so I have,” and it’s some absorbent number. That happens and not quite be their life savings but you can tell that money actually means quite a bit to that person. This is their excuse to using it right now is, “Well I don’t really want to paper trade. I need to … ” Which is fine, but there is some apples and oranges that goes into all of this too. But I would definitely say that you were doing it the right way.
Clay: Is it safe to say that you were probably just getting totally overwhelmed with all the random and free information that you were probably pouring on yourself when you were trying to learn technical analysis?
Ryan / Mico: Well yeah. It was a lot of trying to put all the puzzle pieces together and it’s still not making much sense overall. I eventually was like, “Okay, you know what, I’ll just go ahead and pull the trigger on CTU and go from there.”
Clay: You were a member of the Inner Circle first though, right?
Ryan / Mico: For about a month.
Clay: Okay. I was going to say, I thought I remember you showing up before and not going all in for CTU. You said this was back in 2017?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. I’m trying to think. It feels like you’ve been around for longer than that but I guess it is still two years ago. Time flies.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. Yeah.
Clay: But that’s true. It has been two years.
Clay: You get CTU. Do you pause your trading and do you hop right into the classes? Or I guess walk through where you went from there, because a lot of people go down different pathways. What was your approach after you pulled into the structured learning format?
Ryan / Mico: Let’s see. It’s hard to remember, but I definitely know for sure though that I crammed CTU as quick as I could. I just blew through the courses. Once all the courses were through, I started going through the CTU library and going through all that, all the case studies, and pretty much just absorbing everything as quick as possible. Then it was just like, “Okay, I totally feel confident.” I think I got a little too overconfident.
Clay: I was going to say, when I hear cramming through the information as quick as possible, I always get a little nervous. Not that people can’t absorb it, but how fast did you get through stuff? Are you talking a week, a couple weeks, a month? What was this? Because there’s a lot of stuff. Even two years ago there was a lot of stuff.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, I know. I went through probably all of the bulk of the course or the CTU package, probably went though all of that in a month or two months. I think about two months.
Clay: Okay, so you were hauling pretty good then.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. Then going through all the webinars. I think I still have some webinars to go through.
Clay: Okay, well I like the cliffhanger you left us on. Okay. You thought you were ready, you were feeling confident, and then pick it back up from there.
Ryan / Mico: Let’s see. I’m trying to remember when I started trading again. Because there is definitely a lot of things between trying to trade options at one point and … Let’s see. Okay, now I remember. I think towards the fall, or late fall, about November/December, I was back to trading, I guess alongside with CTU at that point. This was when everything related to Bitcoin was going crazy.
Ryan / Mico: I was actually doing pretty good in November and December. I actually ended the year with a small green. I was like, “Okay, I guess I got this now.” Something about the market shifting early 2018 where I guess Bitcoin was also topping out and the SPY was also pulling back pretty intensely. All of a sudden small caps, it felt different. The setups that I was looking for weren’t working all of a sudden and there was definitely some missing equation there. I couldn’t really put my finger on, but I ended up just bleeding out hard between January and February, where I took a step back and was like, “Okay, maybe equities isn’t for me.” People were suggesting, “Maybe trade options.”
Ryan / Mico: So I tried my hand at options and that was even more of a train wreck. I had no idea how leveraged, in a sense, options were. I definitely lost real quick a bunch of money. Pretty much to me it was like I blew up within a month trading options. I just couldn’t put two and two together between the price of the underlying and the price of the options, and how they don’t exactly move hand in hand, and how sometimes the price of the option won’t move as much as the price of the underlying, and vice versa. I was just getting chopped up and destroyed. I pretty much closed that account real fast.
Ryan / Mico: I had a gap period where I didn’t trade again until the summer of 2018 where I opened up another account with Interactive Brokers and tried trading equities again. I felt like I started having a little bit of success. Overall, I was losing some money here and there, but I felt like my understanding was a lot deeper than earlier in the year.
Clay: During that downtime, did you go back and keep studying?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Clay: Okay, all right. I was going to say, because I was wondering, what exactly changed and how did you start to feel a little bit better? But that would make sense if during the time where you stepped away you were still studying. You didn’t step away from the markets as a whole.
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: You just stepped away from trading, but you kept on studying. All right.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: That makes actually really good sense and why all of a sudden when you came back, “Hey, I’m not making millions of dollars but this feels a little bit different.” Did it feel like you had more control at that point?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, definitely. Pretty much 2018 for me was a lot of try my hand at it and fail miserably, and then take a step back and keep studying. It was pretty much an obsession at that point. It was just like, “Okay, when I’m not working I’m studying the markets.” That was pretty much the only two things I did for that entire year was just study and work.
Clay: In many ways that’s how it needs to be when you’re first getting started. It’s definitely a front loaded business in the sense of you got to learn what you got to learn, and you got to do what you got to do. But not that the learning stops or that you never have to do anything, but there’s definitely, once you get in a groove, the time does drop off quite a bit more. But yeah, you got to get over that first time hump.
Clay: 2018, like you said, just total … You didn’t trade at all during 2018? Because I feel like …
Ryan / Mico: No, I did. I did.
Clay: Okay, I was going to say. All right.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, so … Okay, so let’s see. Yeah, I traded early 2018, lost a whole bunch of money, came back in the summer. I only had a really small window period in 2018. I had maybe three or four weeks where I was able to trade. It was like, “Okay, I think I got this down.”
Ryan / Mico: Then life shifted for me where I wasn’t able to trade at all for about five months. I was still studying the markets whenever I could, but things got a little busy, and it was definitely on the back burner at that time. Let’s see. I think it was … Yeah, so December is when I went full-time. I’ve been full-time ever since then. But yeah, I pretty much ended the year pretty deep in the red for 2018.
Ryan / Mico: I will say, that five month gap got me a little too over confident. I was like, “Okay, I feel like I’m doing pretty good overall.” The summer was all right. I felt like I did okay. As soon as I opened an account over PDT, I definitely got way over confident and way oversized. I pretty much just go destroyed in the first … Well I opened my account the second week of December. For the rest of December I pretty much just got completely decimated. Almost blew up my account in the first three weeks.
Clay: Do you think that had something to do with the overconfidence, the fact that now you’re over PDT, meaning I can trade as much as I want?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah.
Clay: Do you think that’s where some of that came from?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, totally, like 100%.
Clay: Yeah, I remember that feeling too. When you finally get over that hump and you’re like, “Holy crap, I can make 15 day trades today if I want to and everything’s okay.” Yeah, I know the feeling there for sure. I don’t know. It’s weird but that makes total sense.
Clay: I didn’t know, I didn’t realize you almost blew up the account though. Were you still doing the small caps at that point?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I feel like I have a pretty good affinity towards small caps. It’s just been a thing that I like to stick to. Since the small cap world or market has been pretty slow lately, I’ve been venturing out here and there, trying to look at some big cap setups. I’ve mostly just been sticking to one or two particular setups, in terms of big caps.
Ryan / Mico: But yeah, for the most part, small caps seem to be a little easier for me to get down and understand the motive behind the move, where the bias is, in a sense. For the most part, most of the small caps are trash companies. Right off the bat, the bias on them is pretty short biased. It’s just a matter of using the chart to know pretty much when to go short.
Clay: How do you manage yours? Because first off, I agree. Small caps, you should be biased, bearish. You should biased short because well they are small caps, so they’re probably a piece of garbage. But garbage can run, and garbage can run very, very, very big sometimes. Accounts can go bye-bye from these little garbage stocks if you’re not careful.
Clay: Are you pretty good with your … Let me ask you this way. What was causing you to get crushed? What caused you to almost blog up your account? I know you had overconfidence because you could trade as much as you wanted, but was it a lack of discipline where you kept trying to short these small caps and they kept … But what actually was leading to those … Like you said, you literally almost blew up your account. What exactly was going on during that time?
Ryan / Mico: Well, so back in December, I basically traded anything and everything. It was just like a kid in the candy store. I’m above PDT, I can trade anything and everything. I’m just going to throw 1,000 share lots at everything. I wasn’t really accounting for the volatility of some things. I definitely remember when XPO was crashing. I was trading 1,000 share lots of XPO where it was moving dollars at a time within minutes.
Ryan / Mico: I guess my risk management was very, very lacking for the way some of these stocks are moving. Actually, just in this month, I’ve been doing some reflecting. I found that a lot of my big losses, just in this month, had to do with tickers that just had ridiculously wide spreads, like BYND, or the past couple days, SOLY. I wasn’t really accounting for my position size with the spread size. I was just getting steamrolled. By the time I’m trying to stop out with slippage and everything, I’m pretty deep in the red.
Ryan / Mico: I think a lot of that was just trying to adjust according to the way these tickers move. I’m still adjusting for that because after the blow up in December, I definitely took a step back to reflect over the holidays and was like, “Okay.” Trying to get over the despair of almost blowing up my account, this like, “Okay, so if I want to survive in this game, how do I do it?”
Ryan / Mico: It was like, “Okay, so I just need to really, really downsize and just get to consistency with being super small size.” That’s actually still where I’m at. I’m trading 300 shares at a time. I’m trying to identify what an A+ setup is for me, versus a setup that I’m not really that comfortable with, but I see that it’s there.
Ryan / Mico: The trade I took on SBOT for example, isn’t exactly an A+ setup for me, so I used a smaller share size.
Clay: What’s your size that you used for …
Ryan / Mico: I only shorted with 300 shares.
Clay: Okay. Let me ask, if it was BYND and for listener’s sake, SBOT, like we talked about, that’s a sub $3 stock. BYND is a plus, we’ll call it $80 stock. What would your share size be on something like BYND?
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah, 100 shares.
Clay: Okay.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I think probably when BYND started running, I’m pretty sure I started with just 300 shares. Because every trade I was putting on, it was just like, “Okay, I’m putting 300 shares on for everything.” That doesn’t really equate, depending on the spread and the volatility of the ticker.
Clay: Right, exactly. For me, I don’t have a hard line, but you’re right. Depending on the volatility is going to dictate it. If it’s, let’s call it $150+ stock and it’s a volatile monster, then my normal size is 500 shares. There is no way I’m doing 500 shares on that then, I’ll drop it down to 300. Or maybe even depending on how highly priced it is and how volatile, sometimes I’ll even go to 100 shares because if it’s moving, fluctuating up and down a dollar at a time, well then I’ll just use 100 shares. If I can get a dollar, that’s a quick hundred bucks.
Clay: You’re absolutely right. The way to quickly blow yourself up is to find a number, so in your case 300 shares, and then you just apply 300 shares to any stock that you’re trading. Don’t do that, listeners. Truly that’s gold. That is gold and information where if you take that, you’re going to save yourself some headaches. You need to realize that position size is going to fluctuate, and should be different based on the type of stock or the type of whatever you are trading is.
Clay: There is a little free bit of nugget of wisdom that I’m telling you, heed that. That is very, very important that I had to learn the hard way. I’m assuming, did you get roasted on BYND a couple times with 300 shares?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. It’s been a pretty big challenge over the past six months. Definitely not going to lie about that.
Clay: Okay, so there you go, listeners. Just all I can say is please, realize I’m not being dramatic. Little things like that make a huge difference. But I feel like …
Clay: Well actually, let me ask this before I forget. You mentioned about you like small caps because you can understand more of their motive and stuff like that. Are you using fundamental analysis in your decisions at all? What did you mean necessarily by motive?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, a little bit. Sometimes during the pre-market, I’ll look into the filings real quick. I’ll just quickly look at the balance sheets, and whether or not there’s warrants for a particular ticker. Because if there’s a price level set in mind and if there just happens to be a PR pump, sometimes it’s like, “Okay, this doesn’t seem right.” Okay. I’ll look on the balance sheet and the company has absolutely no cash on hand, and they’re insolvent in terms of their assets and liabilities. It begs the question, well if this company is up on just some PR fluff, how realistic is it that this thing is actually going to run and sustain a move?
Ryan / Mico: A lot of these runs are usually just pumps done by underwriters who are just propping up the stock so they can dump an offering at some point later on. Right then the bias is pretty short. Okay, so this company has no cash, they have a shelf that they’re just waiting to dump an offering for whenever the price actually gets up high enough for them to actually start unloading and diluting shares into the market.
Clay: Okay, so let me ask this, you take one of these stocks. I think you said, as you describe, there’s warrants, there’s balance sheets, terrible. Are you still setting a hard line stop-loss when you go short?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, to a certain extent. There gets to a point where the trade plan is not really working. All of a sudden there’s a short squeeze taking place when the ticker is just supposed to be a quick pop and drop.
Ryan / Mico: I’ve gotten caught in a couple of those short squeezes where it’s holding a support here. All of a sudden this is flagging and it’s going against my plan. I need to just stop out. I’m thinking right now, like the very …
Clay: Let me ask this, do you struggle to stop out at times?
Ryan / Mico: Sometimes, but for the most …
Clay: I’m going to help you because I know I … For those sometimes where you struggled and you don’t stop out, has it hurt pretty bad as far as the account?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. This is what I think and this is why I ask certain questions. This is the exact reason why I don’t want to know about balance sheets, I don’t want to know about anything because as soon as you sit there and say, “This company’s balance sheet is garbage. Oh, there’s warrants. This is just PR fluff,” at some point they’re going to start dumping. Well think about that statement, “At some point.” What point, 10 bucks above where you’re short or where?
Clay: In fact, just a couple of weeks ago we did a … with mark just about the fundamental voice and how if you start to corrupt your mind as far as, “Oh, well the fundamentals of this are garbage. Oh, this is garbage. This is garbage,” then the chart could be telling you, you might want to be getting out right about now. But if the fundamental voice is whispering to you about how bad, “Oh, remember that balance sheet, it’s so bad,” who cares? The chart, the hype, the hoopla, it can well surpass a bad balance sheet.
Clay: I think it sounds like sometimes your chart … It’s not like you don’t understand the chart. This is not a problem of chart vision, it’s not a problem of you understanding technical analysis. It’s a problem of you drinking too much bearish Kool-Aid where you’re thinking, “Oh, this thing’s going down. It’s going down.” Yeah, you know what, it’s going to eventually go down. I’m not arguing that, but it could go way up beyond you before … You know what I mean?
Ryan / Mico: I feel like I maybe glossed over some things in regards to that. I would say I am mostly looking at price action probably about 95% of it, whereas 5% of the fundamentals is in the back of my mind. There is that thing that exists, but I’m definitely aware that these things can get overhyped and overblown, and run like crazy. I need to just step out of the way. Sometimes I’ll stop out of the short, and then I’ll switch to long, and I’ll go with the trend at that point.
Ryan / Mico: I think a big part of it is understanding where people are trapped. I wanted to bring up the BPTH, the first day it ran. It popped up on scans. The plan was just supposed to a pop and drop. I shorted into it right with a risk against the resistance. Then it dropped and it started holding a support. I was like, “Okay, this is not normal. This should have just went up and went straight down.” It just didn’t feel right.
Ryan / Mico: As soon as it started breaking out, I instantly stopped out and switched to long because at that point, my thought process was everybody that was shorting that as a pop and drop is now all of a sudden trapped in a short position. Now this thing is going on a short squeeze. It certainly did.
Clay: No, yeah. BPTH, that thing was a monster. I’m just saying, and just from an outsider looking in, for those couple instances where you said you didn’t honor the stop-loss, it sounds like from my understanding you didn’t honor it because you had that 5% bearish Kool-Aid that influenced your thought process there and that’s why you didn’t stop out. Let’s try to make it where you always stop out where you should stop out. But it sounds like you’re pretty good at that for the most part.
Ryan / Mico: Well, yeah. Actually, looking back, what was really destroying my account or I should say what was really giving back most of my gains throughout the past six months was going long, just longing falling knives, or pretty much just longing something and then just having it still just bleeding out against me. It was not just small caps, but it was small caps and large caps where I’m trying to buy a position for a bounce on support and it’s just cutting right through. I’m just bleeding out.
Ryan / Mico: I think the last one where that happened to me, the last long was on ROKU. I was trying to long on a support and it just broke right through, and just kept bleeding out like a dollar a share. By the time I got out it was like, “Wow, this is a big loss.”
Clay: What took you so long to get out?
Ryan / Mico: I think part of that was probably just not keeping a tight enough leash on the trade whereas like, “Okay, I’m going to buy it here and if it doesn’t bounce immediately, I need to get out.” I pretty much, for the most part, just stopped longing falling knives.
Clay: Let me ask this though, is the problem the falling knives? Or is the question that it sounds like, and I could be wrong, or is the problem it doesn’t sound like you have an exact idea of where you need to stop out before you even get it in the first place?
Ryan / Mico: Well, I sort of have an idea.
Clay: You sort … No, there’s not sort ofs. All I’m saying is from listening in, I don’t know if the problem is the falling knife, because you can get stopped out at much of those falling knives if you keep that risk very, very small, as I know you know how to do. But then as I also know that you know, all it takes is one of those nice little snap back bounces and you could be quite a bit in the green.
Clay: But short of, and I have an idea, I don’t know. That sounds to me like you’re making up the stop-loss as you go.
Ryan / Mico: Well, and that was pretty much the big thing that got me to just stop longing big panic dumps because I’m looking at it. Okay, so I got a support at two bucks or whatever. Okay, so I’m going to put my entry around $2 area depending on where the Level 2 is at. It’ll crack right through and it’s like, “Okay, maybe it’s just a fake break and it’ll snap back,” and then it just keeps going, and going. I’m like, “Oh man.”
Ryan / Mico: At that point it’s like, “Okay, well I just need to cut it.” But by the time I cut it, it’s a lot bigger of a loss than where my original plan was, my mindset.
Clay: Ah, the mental stop.
Ryan / Mico: Yes. Yes.
Clay: Yes, welcome to the club of I’ll use mental stops and then all of a sudden the mental stop … I can totally relate. That’s just why I sit here and say it. I get it. Mental stops, they’re …
Ryan / Mico: It’s been a challenge of hard stops versus mental stops for me.
Clay: I think that’s the challenge. I don’t think the challenge is the falling knife, I think the challenge is those mental stops caused that falling knife to just become a much bigger knife than it actually would have ever intended to be. Because you can do the same thing on the short side. If there’s some parabolic move, you could be like, “Okay, well I’m going to use a mental stop. Okay, I’ll do a little bit more.” Then all of a sudden that thing just went way against me. But you get the idea.
Clay: For listeners out there, a mental stop just means in your mind you’re like, “Okay, if it hits that level, I’m going to get out.” But the tricky part is it hits that level, like Mico is saying there like, “Well maybe it’s just a snapback. It’ll snap back. Okay, well then it gets down to there. Okay, well I’m for sure going to sell at that point.” Then it gets to that point and in your mind you somehow rationalize another reason why you need to stay in the trade. Then before you know it, like Mico said, “Holy crap, this loss is a lot bigger than it would have been had I just gotten out in the first place.” But welcome to the club.
Clay: Like you said, it’s clearly you’re not doing this every single trade because as you said at the beginning, you’re green on the week and everything like that. It’s not like you’re running around just totally making stuff up. I’m just nitpicking at you because well [crosstalk] obviously I want you to be as …
Ryan / Mico: Oh, you mean in terms of mental stops? I would say for the most part when I’m scalping, it’s definitely mental stops. It’s looking at the Level 2, and price action, and seeing where price action is going with those stops. It’s more, I’ll actually use hard stops … I used a hard stop yesterday on an ELTK short where I saw it just basically dump from 11.50s and it bounced up right around the VWAP area. I put a short in around 9.30s with a hard stop over the 9.50 area. I just let that trade do its thing.
Ryan / Mico: Going into that plan, I knew it wasn’t going to be a scalp. It was going to be a longer trade waiting for the dump to happen.
Clay: But you had a hard stop in regardless.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, yeah. I had a hard stop at that point because well, for one, the way ELTK was moving over the past couple days, that thing was definitely violent in its movement. It had the potential to just destroy. It could have just skipped up a dollar straight into a halt. At that point, using a mental stop, you’re getting out at the top.
Clay: Oh yeah, you’re toast. Yeah, exactly.
Ryan / Mico: That was a thing for if I’m going to get in this trade, I need to have a hard stop. I’m risking probably some pretty intense slippage if this thing does spike again.
Ryan / Mico: What gave me more of the confidence was everybody that just longed that above 9.50s is trapped at this point. There’s some pretty strong bearish movement after those two big dump candles.
Clay: Yeah, that was … For listener’s sake, ELTK, as of the recording of this, we’re talking about the previous day. But that thing was halted, I’m pretty sure like 58 times yesterday. It was ridiculous, but it was definitely a big mover. What did you short at exactly?
Ryan / Mico: I think my entry was 9.31.
Clay: Then where did you get out at?
Ryan / Mico: I ended up holding onto that too long. I was expecting that thing to just bleed out.
Clay: Why? Why? Because you drank the Kool-Aid. I’m telling you, man. Follow the chart.
Ryan / Mico: I’ll admit, I got greedy. When I saw $7 … Okay, my original plan, my target was around eight bucks. I’ll take a $1.30 a share, sure. When that thing cracked straight down to $7, I’m like, “Oh, this thing is dead.” Then it bounced and held 7.60s. I tried to get out at 7.60s, I couldn’t get filled. Then it spiked up and I just took it off. I got about $1.07 a share on that trade.
Clay: So still a good trade.
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah.
Clay: Why did you think … You thought it was going to keep on crushing because of the price action you saw then.
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That thing was just [crosstalk] no stopping.
Clay: It wasn’t like you read their balance sheet and you’re like …
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: Okay, good. All right. It wasn’t the fundamental Kool-Aid voice that was corrupting you. You just saw the price action.
Ryan / Mico: No. That rarely … That’s in the back of my mind, but I don’t really ever trade off of that.
Clay: Would you agree that trading is very mentally taxing, it’s very mentally difficult, there’s tons of stuff to think about? Would you agree with that statement?
Ryan / Mico: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Clay: I’m going to offer this challenge to you. Because we both agree on that premise that trading has all sorts of things that you already got to remember, why don’t we just take a piece of that out of the puzzle? How about just for a week, no fundamentals, no balance sheets, no press releases. You just trade the chart, you just focus on the chart. Let’s remove some stuff from your mind, because you just agreed that there’s already too much stuff to think about in the first place.
Clay: Let’s just take that out of there and … Can you do that for a week and let’s see if that can help your clarity even better? Because I bet it will.
Ryan / Mico: Well I don’t really think it has too much effect on my clarity overall.
Clay: So you just admitted that it does have clarity. If it doesn’t have too much, by default it has some. But you just agreed that there’s already too much to think about in the first place. Why would you not want to make this as clean as possible?
Clay: I’m telling you, man. I know where you got this. You got this from Mr. Marketer that shoves all this crap down your throat about, “Oh, pay attention to this and pay attention to that.” No, man. That’s how you get roasted because you think that things are bad and then things just get absolutely out of control, and then all it takes is …
Clay: Did you ever see the article? What was that stock? KBIO. Do you remember KBIO?
Ryan / Mico: With John Campbell?
Clay: I don’t know. Did you see that article [inaudible] about the E-Trade guy that actually got his account ro …
Ryan / Mico: Yeah, yeah. His name was John Campbell.
Clay: Oh, is that John?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. Yeah, yeah. See. All it takes is one because I got some bearish fundamental thing because some guy said that these companies are all garbage, and it’ll all go back down.
Ryan / Mico: Oh yeah. I would never short something like that overnight.
Clay: I’m telling you, that Kool-Aid voice is … But this has been fun. We’re almost at an hour though. I don’t know where the time went. We’ll have to pick [crosstalk] this … Yeah, exactly this …
Ryan / Mico: Oh, wow.
Clay: Yeah, this is a good one. We go down the rabbit hole. This was not … I mean, I guess it was an interview, kind of. But it turned into a good, just back and forth discussion. This was fun.
Ryan / Mico: Yeah.
Clay: But before we go, we got to do the standard questions which I know are coming. First off, if you had a time machine and you could go back to the start of all this, what would be one bit of advice that you would give yourself?
Ryan / Mico: Oh man. You know, I have been trying to think of how to answer that question and I honestly can’t think of anything because it’s just been … I feel like in every step of the journey along the way, I feel like there’s not really anything I could have done different that would have, I don’t know, helped me understand the whole trial by fire aspect of trading. Because I feel like a lot of it is just trial by fire. You just got to get burnt by the stove before you know not to touch it anymore.
Clay: There is definitely that aspect. I will agree that at points it’s just like, “Okay, you got to just let people get out there and get punched in the face every now and then.” I do think there’s also value in those people who have been punched in the face before, so I’m just not even going to touch the stove in the first place. But there is that fine line where yeah, some people and in some situations you need to get burned. I can respect that I don’t know if I would change anything.
Clay: I think you’re probably also saying that because you never had any massive losses where if you had started with $50,000 and gone down to $5,000, I could see you regret of, “You know, I probably should have started a little bit smaller.” But you started small in the first place, which made things a little bit easier. But yeah, that makes sense how you could answer like that given you never ended up living under a bridge or anything like that.
Clay: All right. Now we getting in the fun stuff here. Mico, what is your favorite movie?
Ryan / Mico: It’s pretty much toss up between two movies, between The Matrix and Fight Club.
Clay: Nice. Both classics. I won’t even say one of the most famous lines in probably all of movies, so that would be too cliché at this point. But yeah, those are good ones, for sure. It’s been a while though since I’ve seen Fight Club, and I guess Matrix too, when I think about it.
Clay: What about food? What do you like to eat for food and then dessert?
Ryan / Mico: Man, I have been drawing blanks for months trying to figure out what is it, what is my favorite food? I have no idea. I know for dessert-wise, it’s probably a cheesecake. But as for a main course meal, man, that’s a hard one.
Clay: Do you like ribs?
Ryan / Mico: I do. But I was also a vegetarian for seven years, so it was like … I guess at that point, mac and cheese was probably my favorite, so I’ll just go with that.
Clay: Mac and cheese was my lifeline through college. Do you have a ALDI’s by you at all, wherever you live?
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: Do you know what ALDI’s, the [inaudible 01:05:43]?
Ryan / Mico: Yeah. I know of ALDI’s, but yeah, there’s none nearby.
Clay: Okay. Well anyways, ALDI’s was nearby me down in Columbus, Ohio at the Ohio State University. They had 29 cent boxes of mac and cheese. As a college student, I’m pretty sure back in those days, if I would have been cut, I just bled cheese. That’s because that’s pretty much all I ate was mac and cheese. Sometimes I’d put broccoli in it. But point being, I can get behind the mac and cheese train. That’s a classic, absolute classic.
Clay: Then finally, three words and these three words would be what you would use to describe a successful trader, what it takes to be successful. What would those three words be?
Ryan / Mico: Definitely persistence, patience and discipline. Pretty much the three most common words I’ve heard on this podcast and it all pretty much rings true.
Clay: Yeah. They’ve all been used but I think I’ve said it before, but when certain things keep coming up over, and over, and over again, maybe just maybe there is some truth behind it that those things hold a little bit of weight when it comes to putting yourself on the path that you want to be on.
Clay: Well, Mico, this was … I had a great time. Like I said, I don’t know where the time went, but we’re now over an hour. I guess that’s a sign of a good conversation. But Mico, didn’t you tell me that you didn’t have anything interesting to say?
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: I could have sworn maybe that was …
Ryan / Mico: No.
Clay: I’m pretty …
Ryan / Mico: Definitely didn’t.
Clay: Once again, proves the people that don’t think that they have anything to talk about, this was a great discussion. Some nuggets of wisdom for sure. Listeners, I guess I don’t really … Go ahead. If you don’t believe me, if you think I’m being dramatic, that’s fine. Go apply the same share size to everything and then after you get roasted you can be like, “Oh, wow. That Mico guy and that ClayTrader guy, they were right.” But I prefer you not have to learn that way. Save the money upfront.
Clay: Mico, thank you very much for taking some time out of your afternoon. I appreciate it.
Ryan / Mico: Sure, no problem.
Clay: All right, listeners. Before you go, final few things. First off, if you’re listening to this on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, make sure to subscribe. Especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a comment and a rating, that really helps us out quite a bit. If you are listening on the website itself at, then please share the link. There’s a live chat box there too, so if you have any questions or whatever, then yeah, get in touch and we will reply back. Questions, comments, suggestions, we’re always [inaudible 01:08:16]. We like to hear from those of you that listen, so we’d appreciate it very much.
Clay: Thank you again to you as listeners, thank you Mico. We will see everybody back next week.
Announcer: This has been The Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit

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