Clay Trader Podcast
STR 218: The Right Way to Go “Full Time Trader”
Talking with full time traders is always a popular thing on the show, and that’s what we have this week. Jason (‘jyandcomp2’ chatroom alias) is a full time trader who made the jump the way it should be done. Technically speaking, you could quit your job today and then tomorrow “be a full time trader”, but that doesn’t mean it was a wise decision. This brings up the logical question, “Well Clay… what “would” be a wise way to do it?” You’ll get that answered and a whole lot more as you hear from Jason and the ups and downs of his journey so far. I had a lot of fun with this talk and I’m certain there will be some valuable nuggets of wisdom you can extract from it. Let’s go!
Speaker 1: This is the Stock Trading Reality podcast, episode 218.
Speaker 2: This is the Stock Trading Reality podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday, normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success.
Speaker 2: And this is your host. He can’t stand the excuse, “I don’t have an interesting story, luck, or skill.” He wants and needs to know. Clay Trader.
Clay: Hey, do you know what? In fact, if that is your reasoning for why you haven’t volunteered? So yes, I am talking to you, Inner Circle community members. But if your excuse is, “I don’t have an interesting story,” that is green flag not red flag. Green flag number one that you probably have a super, super interesting story, because I swear the people that throw that out at me. It’s like, I have this almost to an exact science at this point. We’re at well over episode 200. Odds are, not odds are. You definitely have a good story.
Clay: So if you are somebody that’s part of the community and you’re kind of on the edge, “I really don’t have that much of an interesting story, but I do enjoy him so I’d like to, you know maybe” … Come on. I’ll talk with you. We would love to have you for sure. So that is just not a good excuse, I can’t stand the excuse, because I know that you actually do have a good story. Yeah there is lots of different stories out there. Yeah we’ve had some really good speakers, we’ve had some people that clearly aren’t public speakers. Plus you have to listen to me every week, and I’m very clearly not a public speaker and everything still turns out fine.
Clay: So if you’re on the edge, hey. Come on over. The water’s fine, everything will be okay. But I assure you. You have something that you’ve done, something that you’ve thought, something that you wish you would’ve done, that all of us can learn from. So give yourself a little bit more credit and just don’t use that excuse. It’s really just not a good excuse.
Clay: For today’s episode we are talking with chatroom member [J-Y-and-COMP-number-two 00:02:11]. His name is Jason, but that is the alias he goes by in the chatroom and it is a great discussion, a great talk. He is a full-time trader, kind of, and I’ll explain what I mean by “kind of,” but overall good stuff, lot of great nuggets, he’s got viewpoints I’m all for, he’s got a strategy that I can really relate to. And even if you aren’t a scalper, day trader, whatever you want to call it, then there’s still plenty of other nuggets of wisdom that he’s been through that everybody can learn from, and there’s some good reminders for us all whether or not you are a brand new trader, or somebody that’s been trading for a while.
Clay: So without further ado, let’s hear about Jason and his journey. Jason, welcome to the show.
Jason: Hey, thanks Clay for having me. Appreciate it.
Clay: You have, at least as far as I can remember, you’re set in kind of a, you’re getting me fired up. For listeners’ context, before we got recording, it was like, “Do I hear some sort of smack? What exactly is going on?” and he was like, “Oh yeah, I’m over here clapping.” So Jason is getting himself fired up, I’m getting fired up, so-
Clay: Jason let’s just get to it. But you mentioned, did you do those pushups, or was that just a thought?
Jason: I didn’t just do the pushups, no, but I hope we don’t have smell-o-vision because I’m pretty stinky from my workout. That’s where I was telling you I had to hit the shower before we started. But yeah, no. I’m good to go.
Clay: Workout, are we talking lifting, cardio? What type of workout?
Jason: Yeah, a mixture you know? I usually, in the morning when I first wake up, I’ll just kind of do like a warmup. I might hit the, what do you call it? The gazelle, the machine, for a little while, then I’ll do some free weights and stuff. Then in the afternoon I usually do a little bit more.
Clay: Okay so you’re doing two-a-days.
Jason: Yeah, yeah. I mean I wouldn’t say, usually my morning workout isn’t super intense, it’s just to kind of get the blood flowing, getting you ready to get in front of the computer, and then later in the afternoon is usually when I’ll do a little bit heavier lifting and things.
Clay: Okay so the philosophy behind the morning workout? Is that more so trading-related? Is that what you’re trying to accomplish with that, or is that just in general to get your day started?
Jason: I would say both. I mean, previously when I wasn’t focused mainly on the trading, it’s not something that I did, it’s something I kind of added in? It helps a lot, you know. It helps a lot. It obviously gets you going in the morning, gets the blood flowing. But as far as nervousness, anxiety, that type of thing that you’d have during trading or any type of stressful thing, exercise has been a huge thing for me.
Clay: No, I’m fully with you there, and I guess I can’t say there’s no better way because maybe there is. But from my experience just getting out there and like you said, get the blood flowing. It’s great, and I know it’s scientifically proven. It’s a great way to get out stress, get out you know, whatever. To just kind of work it out of your body, sweat it out. So I’m all with you there.
Clay: But, all right. Well, you’ve been a member of the community for … I don’t know. How long have you? I want to say over a year. Is that accurate?
Jason: Yeah. I joined, it would’ve been the start of 2018 approximately? When I started in the community and then started taking some of the courses. I wasn’t full CTU I think until this January? December?
Clay: Yeah, that was still relatively recently.
Clay: So, okay. I don’t want to get too far ahead, but I wanted to just make sure that my … I always like to do a little memory check, like how is my memory, compared to certain things. But good. I was in the ballpark there though, so that’s my little ego boost of the day. But Jason where did all this start for you? Where did you first hear about the market, what kind of got you interested to look into it, and then what other things happened that led you to kind of make the decision, “You know what? I want to get a little bit more hands-on with it.”
Jason: Sure. Well my journey started a long time ago. I mean, this would’ve been maybe when I was in my early teens, my first taste of the excitement of the market of the Kool-Aid, I guess you could say. Actually my dad was a trader, an energy trader. And he worked for one of the large energy companies here in Michigan. He started off as an engineer and that type of thing, and he worked his way up trading and then he became one of the higher traders, and he had people working under him. So I guess my first taste was, I went to his office a few times, saw the big board, saw the big office. There was people everywhere, lot of commotion, that type of stuff. And that was probably my first taste of excitement. I didn’t take anything from that, I was pretty young. In fact, the only thing I took from that was I grabbed one of the guys’ cars from there to detail, so I could make a quick hundred bucks. I was always trying to make a little bit of money here and there.
Jason: But I did that, never really thought much about it from there.
Clay: Now this sounds like you were maybe middle school, high school? I mean, at this point?
Jason: Yeah, sure. That was, I was probably middle school to high school range, maybe just starting in high school. Yeah it was about when he was transitioning into that, yeah.
Clay: Did he work for, what, Consumers maybe? Or DTU?
Jason: No, he worked for DT Energy.
Clay: And I forgot that you’re in Michigan. Where in Michigan are you?
Jason: I am in the Fenton area? And I grew up in the South Lyon area. My parents still live in the South Lyon area.
Clay: That’s over by Detroit, right?
Jason: No, I mean it’s, it’d be-
Clay: No? Okay.
Jason: Not that far.
Clay: In other words, my Michigan geography is lacking. That’s okay, I don’t consider this my home state anyway. But, let me ask you this way. Where are you relative to Grand Rapids?
Jason: Me, myself I’m way far east of you. I’m south of Flint and north of Ann Arbor. So that corridor, that 23 corridor there?
Clay: Yeah. You’re right by Toledo, pretty much.
Jason: No, no, no, no. South of Flint, and north of Ann Arbor.
Clay: Yeah, that’s still pretty close. That’s close to Toledo. Ann Arbor is like 45 minutes from Toledo, right? From the border?
Jason: Yeah, Ann Arbor is but I’m still a little ways up.
Clay: Okay. Let me ask you this way: how far north are you above Ann Arbor?
Jason: Probably a good 30 minutes, you know.
Clay: Come on, Jase, cut me some slack! You’re an hour away-
Jason: I get it, yeah.
Clay: You’re an hour away from the border. I mean, that’s relatively close, I mean-
Jason: Hey, I’m sure you could get me back. Start asking me about your area and I’ll be clueless of the distance and time of things. Yeah. You get the idea. We’re practically neighbors.
Clay: Yeah, but that really goes to show why context is always important and why us as traders need context. Apparently Jason’s definition, his context’s so far away as well. It’s over an hour for me, that’s pretty far away. But from my context, where I am in Michigan, I’m thinking, “Well it takes me three hours to get to the Ohio border” because for listeners’ sake, my parents are just south of the border in the Toledo area. So when we take the kids and go and visit them, I’m thinking, “Dude, you’re only within an hour, that’s really close.” But my perspective, my context, my 200-day moving average, is a little different from Jason’s. That’s funny though.
Clay: It’s all about point of view. But I have no … Okay. Your dad was an energy trader at DTE, that’s awesome. And for listeners again, DTE and Consumers were kind of the big utility power companies here in the state of Michigan.
Clay: So okay, you went through that like you said, middle school, high school. Picked up a few bucks detailing some cars. So pick things back up from there.
Jason: Sure, yeah.
Jason: So I mean, I pretty much worked all the way through high school, just trying to make extra money, putting it away. My dad encouraged me, he actually kind of encouraged me to stay away from purchasing stocks individually when I showed interest in that, really steered me into the mutual fund, safety-type thing at that age. Which was, you know. Which was totally find, I didn’t have any obviously time to spend on it at that point. So I spent a lot of time, obviously, working and saving and continuing to invest in putting things away. From there it just kind of progressed. I mean, most of the stuff again I was getting into were mutual funds, occasionally I might buy a stock here or there that, hey. I drive a Ford car, I’d buy Ford. You know, very similar to a lot of people where at first, you would buy stocks that … you know. Stuff you use, right? Things that are of importance to you that you think are going to stick around.
Clay: No, yeah that makes perfect sense. I mean really when you stop and think about it, if you’re new, in that situation, why would you just buy something random that you don’t know about? So I would say that’s the extremely logical thought process.
Clay: I’m curious. So your dad, who was clearly like you said, a trader and all that good stuff, was like no, no, no … Do you think he said stay away from the individual stocks because he knew that at that point in your life it was just, there’s no way you can actually keep track of individual companies and when you do individual stocks, there is more risk that comes with that, so just do a mutual fund? Or is there another underlying context there that your dad had against individual stocks, or is it just basically kind of a function of your current journey and where you were in life?
Jason: Yeah it was definitely a function of the age and where I was at in life, and financially how much money I had and that type of thing, and time to focus on it. And he had some guys that he worked with … He traded some stocks here and there, nothing like of today’s speed and that type of thing. He would buy and hold stocks for long periods of time, pretty typical, and he always encouraged that. Very conservative, always encouraged savings. My parents are really good at always encouraging savings and to not spend frivolously on things, and I think that that … If you come from a background where you have a hard time managing your money up front, that’s going to be, that’s a big step that you’re really need to overcome if you want to kind of get into the trading world.
Jason: And I think that’s really true with anything, but as far as my parents went, that’s something that, huge appreciation for them. Maybe I didn’t get as spoiled or something, certain things I wanted as a kid. But looking back now, all of those lessons have really paid off, okay? So definitely appreciative for that.
Clay: Yeah, I’m with you there. And nothing really new to the podcast, but I will drive this hammer home all the time. If you can’t get your personal finances in order? Then you have no business in the market, because the only way you’re going to have success in the market is by treating it like a business. But if you can’t manage your own business that we all, whether or not you want to take on the responsibility, we’re all CEOs. CEO is Chief Executive Officers of what? Our own life, our own finances. So if that company known as your personal finances is burning and has no control, like Jason said and like I 110% agree with, you’d better get over that hurdle first because if you don’t have your own ducks in order there’s no way it’s going to work out in the market.
Clay: Now, going back into things. You were, like you said, saving. Picking up some stocks, “Okay let me buy some Ford,” mutual funds. So from a timeline perspective was this through high school and college? What sort of age range was all this going on?
Jason: If I remember correctly, the first account I opened up to actually purchase mutual funds in, I believe I was 17. For some reason, 17 or 18, in that age range, maybe a junior in high school when I first actually opened an account to start purchasing mutual funds.
Clay: And then how long did that go on, where you were just doing more the passive-type stuff?
Jason: Oh, wow. For 15, 20 years. Probably a good nother 15 years. I just worked and constantly was feeding the mutual funds, the 401k, that type of stuff, obviously, at work and stayed focused on that. There was a few times along the way where I would start investigating a little further, get a little more information, but I never really had the time or the focus or the interest probably, at the time, to go further into it. So really, again, I was just … I would look at the performance of the mutual funds, I would choose the ones that would perform the best, or that I thought would perform the best through the screeners and I would just pick mutual funds through there, and pretty much kind of chased the winners. And during a lot of that time, that worked, and things did kind of work out over time.
Clay: Now when you were doing that research, I’m assuming you just looked at past history and you were thinking, “Hey this one’s been performing very well. Why not go with the trend?”
Clay: Okay. All right.
Jason: I would get in the screener, I would look at the best top five of them or whatever, and kind of pick and choose from there. Yeah, there was really not a lot of research or anything like that.
Clay: I mean, honestly though, from what you’re describing and if somebody was, “Listen, I don’t really want to get into the act of trading,” I’d say do that model. Find what’s been performing well, and just go with it. But I mean, you can’t really dabble in the thing, you’ve almost got to go full-bore. But, I mean the way you were doing it, again, I would say that’s pretty logical if you just are looking for maximum exposure. But you weren’t out there looking for, “Okay this mutual fund is actually dipped, so this thing’s getting ready to bounce back.” You were clearly just going with the trend, which is, like you said, a smart way to go about it.
Clay: So where did all the, I mean what finally happened that … Because I know for sure you were no … or I don’t know if you were no longer doing mutual funds at all, but I know you’re not just doing this buy-and-hold stuff. I know you’re very active. So what happened? Did you stumble across something? But what brought you, or at least set off your radar to this world of more active trading?
Jason: Sure. Well I’ll kind of start and if I get off track here feel free to stop me.
Jason: So basically I had been in a career for about 14 years, okay? I had always had interest in trading and in the stock market obviously, as we talked about. But I had been in this career a long time, and I felt I wasn’t super happy, you know? There was a lot of things in [Chaz’s 00:18:00] podcast that I had listened to that would kind of resonate with me in this situation. I wasn’t … the money was good, the people I worked with were good people, the industry was exciting. But there was other things, including myself, that I was not aligned. Things weren’t aligned, okay? And I knew that changes had to be made.
Jason: At that point I spent probably a good three or four years really considering, “Okay. What are we going to do, what’s our next plan of action,” and that type thing. I had progressed from a sales position that I had been doing for I want to say 10 years, nine years, into management and had progressed up farther into management, and the thing that I was looking for, I wasn’t finding. I thought, hey if I can get from being in sales to a management-type position, that’ll do it, you know? And I went through a couple of those cycles, if I can just get to this, this will make me happy. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case. Again, it was a lot of things that I need to work on in myself.
Jason: So I decided at that point that I was going to take a break. I had obviously been saving money for a long time, so I want to really make that clear. This isn’t anything that I decided one day at work when I got mad at my boss that I was like, “I’m out of here. See you later,” you know or anything. This is something that I had been planning out a long time, because I was going to take this time and spend it accordingly, not waste it away.
Jason: So I decided that I would go ahead and leave that job. I left that job in, it would’ve been about the beginning of 2018. Let’s say January of 2018 to just be [inaudible 00:20:00], 18. And I spent some time working on myself personally, and I had some other issues going on and things that I had to deal with, as life goes. So I went through that, and I had interest in trading. It was something that I’d always, in the markets, always had interest always had interest, so I just started exploring it more. And I had been following you, Clay, on YouTube for, oh geez. Like, for … I mean, the chubby days, right? The chubby days.
Clay: The wrecking ball days?
Jason: Oh, you know. I mean, it was a long time ago. This was, it was quite a long time ago, and again, I knew better. I knew I wasn’t going to just jump in and start day trading, and I never had, again, lucky for me I never had that one big win, you know? You hear a lot of people, they get that one monster, that one monster dart throw we’ll say, and it taints their mind into thinking that it’s super easy.
Jason: I’m also fortunate that I’ve never had a huge blowup. I’ve been able to keep that under control. So you know, I just … Okay I totally lost track of where I was at.
Clay: No, that’s cool. This is great, it’s fascinating. I didn’t realize that you were, because most people are, “Yeah, I was just doing an investment thing, and then all of a sudden I stumbled upon something and oh, I didn’t know you could trade. Oh I didn’t know you could get that active.” Then all of a sudden they’re in a whole nother world of trading.
Clay: But for you, like you said. You were well aware of trading for quite a while, and I find that pretty fascinating that you were able to keep yourself disciplined and be like, “No I have an interest in trading, but I know not to just into day trading or jump in and start randomly doing stuff.” And correct me if I’m wrong, I would assume that probably came from your dad always just maybe instilling that, one way or another that hey, if you’re going to get into trading? You’d better go into it very wisely and not rush into it? Or, I guess my question is, how did you know about trading for so long, be interested in trading for so long, but just kind of sit back and observe? Because if you were watching my channel from the chubby days, then like you said. That implies that you’ve been following me for quite a while, yet you weren’t trading.
Clay: So I guess, what held you back away from the markets? Because you’re absolutely right. A lot of people, myself included, you learn about trading, “Oh whoa, that’s awesome! And here we go!” And then all of a sudden you’re emptying your pockets saying, “Where’d all my money go?” But that wasn’t you. So I mean, where did that come from?
Jason: You know I don’t really know. I mean I’m sure it was just my raising and understanding there was a lot of risk involved there. I’ve always had an appetite, I guess you could say, for a little bit of risk, you know? I like to have a little bit of controlled risk, and throughout my life I’ve done that. I flipped cars for a while, and just little things where you’d have to risk a little bit and I’ve always had no issue with that. But I kept it controlled in that I know better. Again, like the same thing, I never really got into the penny stock world, which is a good thing for me. You know, that’s how I feel. I never got absorbed into that, got sucked in or whatever.
Jason: So I think it’s just, yeah. It was a “slow and steady wins the race” mindset, I guess, is what it really comes down to. Everything I’ve learned in life from all my great mentors and my parents and things is that everything that you want that’s difficult is going to take time. And you might get lucky, get lucky a couple times. But eventually, it’s going to come back around. So that’s something I try to remind myself every day, is that slow and steady wins the race, I’m not trying to fly the Lambeau copter anytime soon. Just trying to survive the market and just kind of idle along, I guess is, tread water and that type of thing.
Clay: That’s awesome. No, that’s … For listeners out there, this is some great nuggets of wisdom here because most people, like I said, myself, we just … You learn about the market and there’s no denying the markets are awesome. Trading is awesome, it’s fascinating that you can be making money pressing buttons on your phone or online when you sit in your underwear at home. It’s crazy. But slow and steady wins the race, you definitely need to approach all this in a very methodical manner.
Clay: Okay, so you quit your job, you’re working on things, you’re just making yourself … Whatever you’re doing, but you always knew that you had trading at the back of your mind. So when did trading actually come to the forefront in the sense of, “Hey, I’m ready to actually put some money in the market” from a trading perspective?
Jason: So I think after I had went through a few of the courses, actually I did most of the courses, let’s say, before I gave CTU a … half. I took RVR-
Clay: Let me interrupt real quick. So you-
Jason: Oh sure, yeah.
Clay: … decided you wanted to get involved in the market and you’d finally give it a try? So did you immediately join, or I guess where did … Because from my understanding we left off with you kind of just working on yourself, and then always kind of being interested in trading. But what was the domino that finally got you into, “All right, let’s get to it.”
Jason: I don’t know. I don’t think there was an exact moment where I was like, let’s get to it. When I left that job, my plan was to start taking the classes, you know? I was, hey. I’m going to spend this time wisely. I’ve got this much time set aside where I’m going to focus on my education, you know, kind of go on from there. But I wasn’t … I did have a couple brokers at the time so when I did start the classes I already had the broker open some things that you might warn against with some people who may feel pressured into, if they have their broker open they take one class, they’re already trading. But I felt comfortable in that I could have my broker open, kind of follow along with the courses, and align things. “Okay, I can see that on level two, I can see that over here,” you know, and kind of put it into my world.
Jason: But yeah. There wasn’t a specific moment. The plan was when I left there I was going to start taking the courses, and kind of see where that took me, if I got comfortable enough to trade. I was always kind of trading while I was taking the courses. I didn’t do any paper trading. I believe that paper trading is good for a lot of people, for me the type of trading I was going to do, I didn’t really feel like I was going to get the executions and it wasn’t going to be … I needed it to be real, you know? There had to be some skin in the game, I needed it to be real. Of course, I wasn’t getting hugely aggressive, so you know. To keep it all in perspective.
Clay: Yeah. I was going to say, I’m not … Just listening to you talk and listening to how you were raised, and listening to kind of just the mentality that you had instilled in you towards, slow and steady; save; don’t spend frivolously. So you didn’t sound like somebody that was just going to show up and start throwing cash to the wind just because you didn’t understand. So I have zero problem believing that you probably went about the non-paper trading in a very risk-controlled, a very risk-aware sense in regards to that, not just going out there and acting like some people act.
Clay: So I guess, is this a fair statement? When you quit your job, you knew you wanted to give trading a go.
Clay: Oh, okay. All right.
Jason: Absolutely. It was already, yeah. I already made the decision that I was at least going to take the courses? Probably about six months, I might’ve even a little bit before that. Maybe six months, eight months before I had left, that was something that hey, during this time I’m going to, I’m going to do the courses and kind of go from there. Treat it like, hey. If you were any other business you know it’s going to take a while to get educated, so you’re going to need that time set aside. So that was the-
Clay: Okay. All right, there we go. At first, it just seemed like you quit your job so you could work on yourself, then all of a sudden trading came along. But now things make perfect sense. You quit your job because you knew you wanted to do trading, but you also knew that you wanted to work on some other areas of life, so you were kind of doing all that at once. Is that a good … Okay. Perfect. Perfect.
Clay: So you’re taking the courses, and like you said you’re not paper trading but you’re trading a little bit. So, I always hesitate, because I know some listeners, I don’t want them to hear, “Well I listened to Jason and he didn’t paper trade.” But remember, Jason’s context, well first off I do want to offer up the reminder. Remember, like Jason tried to point out, it’s not like he got mad at his boss one day and was like, “Screw you, I’m out of here. Hey, now I’m a professional trader.”
Clay: No, he had been saving up for it for quite a while, and on that note I’m curious. Did you have any sort of numbers in mind that you wanted to have in the bank, for example, before you quit? Or how did the planning perspective go? Because that is something that I know a lot of people are probably interested in … “Hey yeah, that sounds good. I wouldn’t mind getting rid of my job, but I want to go about that in a smart way” and like you warned, not be like, “I’m done” and all of a sudden I’m a day trader. But did you have a certain quota or certain budget or certain sort of set of numbers you were looking at that kind of gave you the green light to say, “Okay, now I can give up the job.”
Jason: Well my goal leaving the job was to take approximately two years to work on myself and educate myself and see if trading was something that was going to be for me, and then to also see if the type of trading, how that would work into my life. So if I was, let’s say I want to trade the open, or I want to swing trade, or I want to do options. How is that going to affect if I go into another field, the hours. So let’s do this education, see how that goes, and then try to see how that would fit into the rest of my life going forward, right?
Clay: Okay. Yeah, no, that does. You want-
Jason: Maybe ask me the question again and I’ll try to-
Clay: No, that was good, I’m just thinking you … Most people don’t put all those considerations, because you know they’re like, “Well, do I want to trade the open? Because if I want to trade the open then I need to factor in all these other things.” Or, do I want to do a swing trader, because if I’m going to be a swing trader, then yeah that would influence all these other areas. Or if I want to do options.
Clay: So you really, because most people are like, is this … The best way to summarize this is, is this a good broker? When people ask me that I’m like, “I don’t know. What does your time schedule look like? What type of trader are you? What are you even trading?” And it’s such an open-ended question when people ask me, “What broker should I use?” I have no idea. That’s like, you’re looking at a nail sticking out of a piece of wood and you’re like, well I want to get that nail into that piece of wood, and then somebody goes and grabs a sledgehammer. It’s like, yeah that probably wasn’t the best choice for that job.
Clay: But you were definitely thinking things through, which is very rare. But now hearing your backstory, that makes sense with the kind of just how things had progressed. What did you ultimately settle on? Did you … You said you never got into penny stocks, but what did you kind of determine what your strategy was going to be, what your style was going to be, and what you were going to be trading?
Jason: So I would say my style, I figured it out fairly quickly. I like to scalp, and I like the rubber band type moves. That’s the stuff I’m generally looking for in the morning hours. Generally, one, two minute timeframe. And then as we go into the afternoon then I might consider some type of RvR trading, maybe on a longer timeframe.
Jason: So usually when I start my trades though I might even start off on the daily or a 30 minute or 60 minute, and then zooming in and executing on the tighter timeframes. But for me I prefer, at this point, I prefer the scalping. I don’t like to hold positions overnight, and I like to be in and out. I’m very patient but once I get into the trade I generally want to get it over with. If that. I’m sure you can align with that, but that’s kind of where I feel comfortable.
Jason: That’s where my niche is.
Clay: Now that could sound confusing, I don’t know exactly what you meant, because it sounds like a contradiction. He says patience, and then within the next sentence he says he can’t wait to get out. I realize those sound like that doesn’t make sense, but, and correct me if I’m wrong Jason. He’s very, very patient in the entry points that he gets, but when he gets those entry points that he’s been very, very patient for, you’re looking to get out very quickly. Is that an accurate understanding?
Jason: Correct. Absolutely.
Clay: Okay. All right, and I can totally relate because I’m the same way. So yes, patience and then wanting to get out very quick. Those two things, although they seem counterproductive they can actually work very, very well.
Clay: So you like the scalping. Do you always start off on the 60 minute timeframe and work your way down, or is-
Jason: Oh, no. No. Usually I wouldn’t even use that on something or other that I was scalping. Maybe more for like an RvR trade.
Clay: Okay. All right.
Jason: Usually if I’m scalping in the morning I’m just looking at what’s moving. We’re looking at it, just finding what’s moving and then going from there. Not really going to be looking at huge timeframes. May look for, if you get something that’s blood or something, maybe looking for some support, some older support on a timeframe. But yeah, no. That’d be a little more-
Clay: Okay, that makes sense. For more of the RvR you’re starting off broader picture and then working the way down.
Clay: And it sounds like, so when you’re paper, not paper trading. More so practice trading, just kind of figuring out what you wanted to do. Did you try any other stuff or did you literally know from the get-go, “I want to scalp from a day trading perspective?”
Jason: I did some swing trades. I quickly found out how uncomfortable I was holding positions overnight, which I again had no idea of before because previously I would hold stocks overnight and not [inaudible 00:35:08] anything about it. Then once I got a little bit obviously more involved, I didn’t feel comfortable holding positions overnight and I just liked the, if I can … This sounds right. I liked that “eat what you kill” mentality.
Jason: I come from a sales background that was 100% commission for a long time, that scares a lot of people but if that makes sense. You get in, you make your trades, it’s a fairly quick, the actual trading is fairly quick, the mechanical side of it. That’s giving you a little bit more time for other things. And that’s kind of the idea, you know? That’s why I think that, that’s why I prefer it is that okay, this is giving me what I’m looking for, I can have minimal amount of time invested in the trading part, and then possibly I can use this as one source of income maybe as a part-time or full-time job and then work something else in there as well. So that’s what fits for me.
Clay: That makes sense, and I don’t want to speak for you again but I’m assuming you also like the fact that you just want everything fully in your control, whereas a swing trade there is that element of, “Is something going to happen after hours? Is something going to happen after the markets are closed that’s going to cause … “ I mean gaps can work in both directions, of course that could always work out in your favor. But, I mean, is there a control element?
Clay: Because for me I know, I just like … Yeah. I’m in control, minus the trading halts that exist, thank you Uncle Sam. But we’ll set that aside. But is that a pretty accurate representation of what your ideal situation is, that you want maximum control. Is that pretty much what you’re really getting at?
Jason: Absolutely. Yeah, I want to be in the driver’s seat 24/7. I just don’t feel, again, this is my personal risk tolerance. I don’t feel comfortable holding positions overnight. There’s some other things too that I avoid, I have a certain price range of stocks, volume, speed that I’m looking for. So there’s all kinds of criteria. But yeah, absolutely.
Clay: And good, I’m glad you made a comment there. By no means, it sounds like Jason and I are pretty similar, but by no means is this a … And this is how you have to trade. All we’re saying is, for our personal risk tolerances, for our time schedules and what we’re looking to do, this is just what works for Jason. And like you said, it sounds very similar to me so what works for me.
Clay: But as a listener, especially if you’re new, this is not, “Okay the way you’re successful in the market is, you go become a scalper on a two-minute timeframe and that’s how you do it because you need maximum control.” No. We’ve talked to plenty of people here that love to swing trade. They love to do it from their phone because, well, they can do it from their phone, check it at lunch at work. Some people then sprinkle in options to do their swing trading. So by no means is this supposed to be coming across as the holy grail, we have it all figured out or anything like that.
Clay: Now how were you managing your risk during those, I mean I suppose even now that’s important. But especially when you were first kind of skipping over the paper trading and just kind of figuring out what worked for you. Because you mentioned earlier that you never had any sort of massive blowout losses or anything like that. So what was your means by which you were making sure you were controlling your risk? Or, did you just kind of know to control your risk because you had taken the courses before you put any money on the line to begin with?
Jason: Sure. So both. When I first started I would definitely use manual stops, almost always, to just kind of get a feel. And then I knew from the courses as well a little bit to obviously control risk. I mean that’s always something I think that people are going to struggle with. I had some struggles with that, but sticking to that stop obviously. But again, if you’re trading, and you’re winning and you’re losing, and you’re winning and you’re losing, there’s a reason. It pretty much comes down to, you don’t know what you’re doing. I mean that’s kind of the message I want to get out to people that are out there. It’s like you can have some successes and they might be big, but if you have some failures … The amount of money it could cost you to learn a very simple lesson, it might not equate equally.
Jason: So if you don’t control your risk and you take a monster loss and the only thing you learned was that you didn’t have risk control, or you just forgot to put your stop in or something like that, that’s a very expensive lesson. So consider that every time you lose you’re going learn something. You just want to make sure that loss is not so astronomical.
Clay: You said you’re-
Jason: To where you-
Clay: You said you’re in sales, right?
Clay: I mean, that’s … I’m tearing up over here in terms of the sales pitch he just gave in terms of why you can’t be a moron. Because I realize that it may sound bad to be like, “Oh well, I don’t want to have to” … And I’m not talking about my courses at all, but just in general. “Well I don’t want to have to spend money to learn something because I can use that money to go and trade.” But to Jason’s point, if you were to spend, let’s just keep the numbers easy. A hundred dollars and that quote-unquote, “cost” of a hundred dollars saved you from doing something that would have costed you let’s say, five hundred dollars, my question is: would you have spent the hundred dollars to avoid losing five hundred?
Clay: So sure, that education didn’t quite make you money in the sense of account growth, but it saved you money from doing something very stupid. And like Jason’s saying, when it bounces out, it’s like, “Wow. I just lost a lot of money and the only lesson I’m walking away with is actually a pretty basic one that I could’ve easily learned, or I could’ve known how to just simply avoid being in the trade in the first place, had I just actually invested into myself a little bit upfront.” I mean, that nails it on so many levels. Too many times people get caught up with the, “Well, is this going to cost me, or is this going to help me make money? Is this going to help me grow my account?” And yeah, of course that’s important. But the real question, at least in my mind is, “Is this going to help me avoid certain situations that could cost me a whole lot more?”
Clay: Because remember Benjamin Franklin, he knew what he was talking about. “A penny saved is a penny earned,” so if you can avoid some of those big old losses, then that’s actually doing quite a bit for your account. But well said. Well said, and you certainly do have a sales background. That was perfectly put. But by no means was that an empty sales pitch. Everything that Jason just said is fact of the matter, and that’s just really how it breaks down. Well that’s a concept, and I’m waving my hand right now, that I unfortunate didn’t realize when I got started. But that’s also why, when I got into real estate investing, I’m like, you know what? I don’t need to be like, “Oh crap! That was a $40000 mistake.” Oh, okay.
Clay: And that’s what I just learned from. I could’ve gone, so that’s why I spent, I can’t remember, right around $4500 before I personally got into real estate investing, because I’m like, “I will gladly pay to learn the pitfalls that I need to be avoiding, because that could definitely be a costly lesson.” So did you have any other thoughts on that topic? Because that’s actually pretty important.
Jason: I was just going to say, as far as trading eduction goes, don’t … I mean if you’re stepping over dollars to pick up dimes and just, you know. You could really get yourself hurt and just really consider that. If you have any decent amount of money and you want to trade, make sure you get … Geez. Make sure you get some type of education. Because yeah, it could be a very painful lesson, and sometimes I know people, they … some of those lessons might, they cost them everything. So I’d hate for that to happen to somebody and so I was trying to warn against that.
Clay: Yeah, unfortunately from what I’ve seen in the world of just customer support through the site, the lesson that a lot of people learn that’s quite costly is, oh yeah, those YouTube videos weren’t actually telling me everything, or oh, not only was that YouTube video not even telling me everything, what it was telling me was actually some really bad, quote-unquote “knowledge.” And it’s sad. It’s frustrating, it irritates me when I see that that’s really the only lesson that somebody got was, “Oh yeah, I probably shouldn’t have been listening to that,” and then insert blank of some sort of free education route, and that “free” just cost them a whole lot more than anything I’d charge. And yeah, to echo to Jason, it’s sad. It’s sad and it’s very frustrating.
Clay: But unfortunately it is what it is and it’s going to happen. But if we can turn around one person’s thought process to listen to this, and again. This is not a sales pitch to buy my stuff. If you’ve been on the fence to maybe buy somebody else’s and you trust them and you think that they’re going to help? That’s fine. Go for them. But just realize: there is money to be made via a penny saved is a penny earned, and that’s a very powerful concept.
Clay: Now do you have any sorts of goals per day? Or are you looking to make a certain amount per week, per month by being … Are you full-time or are you working like a part-time job or anything?
Jason: I would consider trading to be part-time, okay? So I don’t have another full-time employment, or part-time employment, per se. I do some stuff on the computer and stuff. Retail or [inaudible 00:45:14] type stuff. But really right now my focus is training, personal development, working out, eating the right food, that type of thing. So that’s my main focus at this point. So my goal right now is to go, I feel like I’m about … If I could give myself a percentage, I would say I feel like I’m about 30 to 50 percent to where I’m going to be another 30 to 50 percent. Because the more you learn, it’s like anything. The more you learn, the more you realize you’re like, “I really don’t know as much as I thought I did,” which is good. You’re never really going to be the master, so you’re always learning.
Jason: So I guess, right now my goal is to continue what I’m doing for at least the next four to six months, and kind of see where that takes me. I’m going to continue to review the courses, I always do that, always go back through.
Clay: You’ve been on a lot of the webinars-
Jason: [crosstalk 00:46:12].
Clay: … I’ve been seeing your name ever since you’ve joined, so I know you’re a loyal attendee of the live classes so that’s good.
Jason: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jason: So yeah, just a sponge absorbing as much information as I can. And putting myself into the trading world, seeing if it’s something that could possibly work for me for now and going into the future. So that’s the goal at this point.
Clay: And I assume that it’s not a matter of you need to make, and I’m just throwing this out there. It’s not like if you don’t make a hundred dollars a day then you’re going to be out on the streets or anything. So there’s really no number that you have to make? Is that fair? Because it sounds like you’re out there hustling and doing some other things online. But it’s not like you have a certain goal in the sense of, “I literally need to make a hundred dollars or else the phone bill doesn’t get paid.” It’s nothing like that?
Jason: No, not at all. I mean, again, I had this planned out for quite a long time and I have years of time set aside. So no, not at all. I’m not counting on my trading to pay any type of bills or anything.
Clay: That’s awesome, and that’s very, very wise. And again, I realize this is a talking point I’ve brought up about 10 times, but keep in mind: it is not a fair jump of logic to say, “I heard Jason and he just quit his job and went to trading.” That is true, but as he just said: he’s not sitting there like, “I need to make X amount, I need to make Y amount.” He doesn’t need to make anything, and he would still be perfectly fine.
Clay: So if you are going to do that route, you’ve got to make sure you have the cash reserved, because the last thing you would ever want as a trader is to sit there and be telling yourself, “Okay, some sort of bill’s coming due, so I need to make this amount, or else.” That has forced trade, that has bad trade, that has chasing a trade written all over it, and all you’re going to do there is compound the problem of not only being able to not pay that bill, but also probably be setting yourself back. So don’t do that. Make sure that you have the proper planning in place.
Clay: And did you have, what was your number? I mean, did you want 12 months of cash reserves, or did you want six months? How much cash did you want set aside before you finally told the day job goodbye?
Jason: Yeah, I think … I guess I didn’t really have an exact number in mind. I was good for probably a good four or five years when I left I figured I could cover. I have very little expenses. I don’t have a car payment, I don’t have debt, you know what I mean? My bills are … so I can live on very, very small amount of money. And that’s actually a big part of it to do that, if you’re going to take the time aside. I’m very frugal. So you’re not going to meet me at the local bar on Friday night, you know. That type of thing, and that’s all part of the plan, is to keep the expenses down and to give myself the maximum amount of time necessary or to where I decide that I’ll continue to do.
Clay: That’s awesome. I love the simplicity and I love that. It’s amazing how much automatic freedom and flexibility you have within finances when you don’t have that car payment that so many people have hanging around. It’s like money just comes out of thin air. “Oh, I don’t have that payment anymore? Oh wow, all of a sudden I can use that money for something else.” So I’m all with you there. Car payments, soon as those get out of the way, that’s … go ahead.
Jason: It’s really … I’d really encourage, if I could just try to reach maybe one or two young people. If you can put up with a little bit of having not all the latest and greatest, and I know that’s tough in today’s world, but, you know. And stay away from payments and try to pay cash for stuff and save your money you can get there. But I want it to be clear, I’m almost … I’m in my late 30s and we were talking about earlier was I was investing when I was 17. And this isn’t something where it was a couple of years of work and now I’m just going to go be a trader. Again, this is a long time. It’s taking your time, slow and steady, right? So that’s-
Clay: I love it.
Clay: All right. Now a question that I’m curious, given that it sounds like we do trade pretty similarly. If I were to be sitting next to you and looking at your chart, what would I see? What’s on your monitors?
Jason: Sure. So I use level two, volume. Sometimes I’ll be paying attention to the RSI MACD, and then one, two minute, and then I’ll use moving averages at 10, 50, 100 and 15 EMA. Sometimes I’ll change it up, but that’s pretty standard. And see the things I’m mostly paying attention to? Obviously all the candlesticks of level two, support resistance. I have really simplified it as I’ve [inaudible 00:51:38]. You know, I think in the chatroom when we start talking about the laser light show, after you think, oh if I could just get all these indicators. And then you actually get farther away from that, I think is as you progress.
Jason: But yeah, just keep it fairly simple.
Clay: I assumed I was going to hear something, now you mentioned the 15 EMA. Where is that, out of curiosity, where does that come from? Is that …
Jason: I was using the 15 EMA and I don’t have that up right now on there, but I think I was using that on the trampoline setups, as I recall at one point?
Clay: Okay so that just somehow bled-
Jason: I’d have to go back and see, and see if that was the actual-
Clay: Okay but that somehow, it bled its way down-
Jason: Actually you just-
Clay: … to the day trading strategy from something else out there then?
Jason: You know, to be honest with you, it’s kind of just in the chart? I just left it in there. So yeah I don’t think it’s something that’s necessary. But-
Clay: I mean do you pay attention to it at all, or is it just kind of sitting there and you’re like, oh, hello Mr. 15 EMA, I don’t know why you’re still there but-
Clay: … you make the chart look cool. Or do you just-
Jason: Probably something I could eliminate, really, from the way that I trade.
Clay: Oh, no I’m not saying you should. I’m just curious but, because again, listeners. None of this is supposed to be the holy grail. There’s plenty of ways to trade and that was just one trader talking to another trader wondering where the 15 EMA came from on such a scalping timeframe. But good stuff there.
Clay: So I would say you have lots of strengths so I won’t ask you to list off your strengths. But do you know of any, are you aware of any, or are you currently working on any [inaudible 00:53:18] weaknesses or things you want to get better at? I mean, where do you stand on the quote-unquote, “I need to improve” department?
Jason: Pretty much everywhere, to be honest. I mean I do have some strengths, but really the whole game needs to be improved and I think that that never ends, you know? I don’t think that that is going to be where it’s, “Oh yeah, now I’ve got it,” you know? So it’s always going to be something I’m working on.
Jason: But really, every part of the strategy I’m using, my execution, share size. Really everything. My speed of execution. So I mean it’s, there’s still a lot of work to do, you know? I want to be real clear with that, there’s a lot of work to still do.
Clay: I agree, but, and that makes sense. You clearly made your way up the corporate chain and specialty sales at 100% so of course, your kind of type is always hard on yourself. But I’m glad you’re being hard on yourself, but I would also say that the proof is in the pudding. You didn’t have any sort of blowout losses, so it’s not like … Do you do good though, with taking losses I would assume? That doesn’t sound like it’s a massive weakness.
Clay: I mean, are you good with saying, Oh-
Jason: I do … I’ve struggled with it, to be honest. I’ve struggled with it. I listened to, this would’ve been maybe a month or two ago. I remember listening to [Renna’s 00:54:44] podcast two or three times, because I was similar. I would have good, consistent success, and then I’d just blow it up. I’d build into it too much, very common, right? I’d turn that scalp into a day trade into an investment into a holding it overnight into an [inaudible 00:55:08] position size. It was just, you know. It was so long ago. I think everybody … I don’t want to say everybody’s had this issue, but I think to some extent it’s a very common issue.
Jason: And that’s something I work with every day. I mean, it’s a discipline thing. And in trading, if you … you can learn a lot from trading because if you don’t have discipline in your trading, then there may be something else going on in your life that maybe that’s the reason. Maybe you have something else that you need to work on that’s correlating, if that makes sense. So yeah, I’ve struggled with that.
Jason: And again, a lot of the other podcasts have helped me to just have something, somebody to relate to. In trading, you try to talk to people, I know you’ve said, Clay. If you try to talk to your wife about trading she’ll roll her eyes at you because she doesn’t know what you’re talking about, you know? And so in trading it’s tough. You don’t have somebody that you can bounce a lot of those things off, so the community is a huge thing. It’s really, it’s a huge thing. And those podcasts and just having other people that you can relate to with the problems that you’re having.
Clay: Yeah, that’s one of the, I think, little hidden benefits of the community is … Sure there’s some great alerts and great traders, but just from a very practical level, I mean … Perhaps some people have in their personal life all sorts of people they can be like, “Hey you want to talk the markets?” And I’m like, “Yeah! Let’s talk the markets!” But for me? “Okay Clay, that’s great.” All right, yeah. So I’m fully with you there, but …
Clay: And I mean, I know what you mean you want to work on things, but really, you know the voices exist. The voices never disappear, so it’s more just learning how to handle them, learning what disguises they use, learning how to get rid of them as quickly as possible. Because, and I’m not saying you believe this. I’m more just talking to listeners. But as traders, it’s not like you at some point never, ever get greedy again; or at some point you never, ever get irrational again; or at some point, insert blank of some emotion. The emotions will always be there, but as traders the key is, do you know how to deal with those emotions. Do you know how to recognize those emotions, and that is the key.
Clay: So as much as it’d be great to say trade without emotion, that should really probably be, learn how to handle your emotions. Because that’s going to actually be the key. Would you say that’s a fair statement?
Jason: Hundred percent. Yep. A hundred percent.
Clay: And that is, well I appreciate you just … I still think you’re, you make it sound like you’re on the verge of being just the worst trader ever, because you have so much to work on and like I said. I respect that you’d be like, “Let’s get the ax to the grindstone and let’s go, I’ve got a lot of work to be done,” but I would also throw out there that, I don’t know. I think you’re being, I don’t want to say too hard on yourself, but you’re being very hard on yourself and you’re clearly a humble guy, which I can definitely go and appreciate.
Clay: But with that being said, did you have anything else before we move to the fun questions? Anything else you wanted to get out there? I really liked how you’ve tried to talk to the younger viewers because I’m for it. If this affects even one younger person that changes their life or whatever going forward, that’s awesome. So was there anything else on your agenda that you wanted to talk about?
Clay: Mr. Salesman?
Jason: … I think that-
Clay: You got anymore sales pitches?
Jason: No, I think that covered most of it, yeah.
Clay: Okay. Well I mean, we’ll have to have you back at some point, so it’s not like this is, “Speak now or forever hold your peace.” Well then we will move into … Oh wait. No. I’ve got to offer up the time machine.
Clay: So if you were to get a time machine, and this time machine you could take back to some point in your future and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
Jason: You know, to be honest with you, Clay. This is one time in my life where I’m going to say that I would do thing exactly how they played out. There was a lot of mistakes, there was. You know. But my advice to others would be to slow down and get educated, obviously. But this is one time for me that I’m going to say that I really feel like I’ve, as far as the trading process, I’m happy with how it’s going. I’m happy with the decisions I’ve made. Of course, I could go back and change little things here and there. But I’m pleased with how things have progressed.
Jason: If I could, you know and honestly if I could take the time machine? It wouldn’t be for trading. It would be for other things in life, I would say. But for the trading process and that type of thing, I feel very comfortable.
Clay: Yeah, I was curious how you were going to answer that because sitting here, it’s like Jason went about things in a very well thought out and methodical manner. So I would say that you’re not being ignorant in the sense of, well I did it all right. I would say you pretty much did it all right. I sat back and thought, “Okay, that made sense.” I mean, honestly I was hoping for some train wrecks. Train wrecks are always fun, but you really didn’t have any train wrecks, which is good for you, but bad for me. Listeners want to hear about bloodshed and mass chaos, and you just didn’t have that. But that was good.
Jason: You know, I’ve sipped some Kool-Aid. I know the taste of the Kool-Aid, believe me. I’ve taken some good losses, and I know what the Kool-Aid tastes like. I’ve had many a taste, so.
Clay: But not a taste where you’re living in a van down by the river or anything-
Jason: Down by the river?
Clay: Yeah. So I’m glad that Mike … you know what I’m talking about, the SNL skit? Mark Foley-
Jason: Oh yeah.
Clay: … or whatever his name was in that skit.
Clay: Anyways. All right, let’s move on to the fun stuff. Jason, what is your favorite movie?
Jason: My favorite movie. I think, for me my favorite movie is Grandma’s Boy. It’s hilarious.
Clay: That is pretty-
Jason: … and-
Clay: That is a funny one.
Jason: And usually I like movies that make me laugh, and I haven’t really seen any great movies lately, any new stuff recently that’s been really blockbuster for me. So I’m going to go with that. That’s a classic.
Clay: It is a classic. In fact, it’s been a while since I’ve seen it but that movie did have some pretty … yeah.
Jason: Nick Swardson. Nick Swardson, if you’ve ever seen his stand-up as well? Oh man. He is killer.
Clay: Okay, I will keep that in mind, but oh man I totally forgot about that. One of those movies I totally forgot about it, but as soon as you said it I’m like, “Oh yeah, that movie is pretty funny.” So good stuff.
Clay: All right, well what about food? You mentioned you were trying to eat healthy and stuff like that, so I guess maybe on one of your cheat days or treat days or whatever you want to call it. Or I don’t know, maybe you just like broccoli, which is totally cool too. But what is your favorite food and dessert?
Jason: Well I really like cooking, so I like to make my own food. Recently I’ve been working on my chicken parm, I made chicken Parmesan for … I made it what, four times last week? And I made it four times four different ways, I was trying to get it nailed down and I liked it.
Clay: That’s like a trade plan.
Jason: That’s been my favorite as of late. That’s what the plan is as of late, but I tell you what, man. If I’m going all out I like some fried chicken or chicken wings, that’s probably going to be my go-to.
Clay: Nice. That sounds … I mean, chicken wings. That’s just pure America right there. I think that’s America, I’m pretty sure we invented it, I don’t know. But regardless, there’s nothing … Some deep fried chicken wings. That’s fantastic stuff.
Clay: And then, final question: three words … Actually I do have one more question after this, but for the final official question, three words, and these three words need to describe or would be what you would use to describe and associate with a successful trader. What would those three words be?
Jason: Sure. Well we all know the first one is going to be patience, right? Pack your patience, as I think one of your last-
Clay: Maquan! Yep, pack your patience.
Jason: Maquan, there you go, thank you. Maquan, yep. Pack your patience. I mean that, yeah. You’d better be patient because it’s not going to be a short journey.
Jason: You need to be observant.
Clay: Ooh, that’s a good one.
Jason: Yeah and I think that that’s, if you’re … I’ll give you a little example. When I was a kid, I used to always find the four-leaf clovers in my backyard. Everyone, my mom would always be impressed that I could always find the four-leaf clovers. My dad always used to tell me, “You know, you’re really observant, you pay really close attention.” That’s something that’s always stuck with me, yeah you know it is a really good quality of mine. I do play close attention. But I think that’s important.
Jason: And you have to be persistent. You could say persistence, you could say tenacity and that type of thing. But you have to be somebody who’s not going to give up easily, and set, kinda stubborn.
Clay: No, yep. I agree. Stubborn is definitely a two-edged sword in the world of trading, but I would argue it’s almost a required sword because you’ve got to be … You can’t be persistent if you don’t have a little bit of stubbornness in you. So I think those were definitely three good words for sure.
Clay: And then the final question is, especially since you’re in Michigan. Are you going to try to come to the Meet and Greet this summer-
Clay: … in September.
Jason: Yeah, September. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, absolutely, if I’m around. I mean that, yeah, hundred percent. Yep.
Clay: What are you … I don’t like that caveat you already put in, “if I’m around.” What are you a lawyer? Don’t try to lawyer me up with this-
Jason: Well I mean hey, you know. What if I-
Clay: I expect you to, no I expect you to structure your whole, entire summer around meeting people in an internet chatroom. That’s what I expect.
Jason: No, it’s just, I’m excited to meet people from the chatroom. I mean you see them in there every day and yeah, it could be exciting to meet everybody and have somebody to finally put the face with a name and talk shop, you know?
Clay: And you know actually it’s a good time. But good, all right.
Clay: Well I’m glad that, “if you’re around” you will try to make it. But in all seriousness. Jason, thank you very much. We’ve had this one on the books, and I’ve been seeing you in the lounge, I’ve been seeing you post, I’ve been seeing you at webinars so it was great to hear your story and talk with you. And again, thank you for hanging out.
Jason: Hey, thanks a lot for having me, Clay. Really appreciate it.
Clay: You are welcome and like I said. We’ll have to have you back.
Clay: But for you listeners, before we go. A final couple of things here. First off, if you are listening to this on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, then first off, subscribe. And second, especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating, and even yet a positive comment? That really helps us out, we appreciate it, and it goes a long way. And if you’re listening at claytrader.com on the show notes page, make sure to either in the live chat or whatever, get ahold of us if you have any comments, questions, and we would be more than … We want to interact with you. I mean we’re not one of these people where you’re going to get outsourced to some other person. Nope. We kind of pride ourselves on our ability to be a small business that still can interact with everybody if you want to.
Clay: So check those things out, and we look forward to hearing from you. Thanks again to Jason, and thank you as viewers. We will see you back next week.
Speaker 2: This has been the Stock Trading Reality podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the Claytrader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit claytrader.com.