Clay Trader Podcast

STR 216: A Good Talk With A Great Guy

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Via Clay Trader

A unique twist on this discussion is that our guest, Paul, is now a ClayTrader University member. By the time you as a listener hear these talks, in many cases, several weeks have passed by. I think this is pretty cool because it gives us all insight to what having “many pieces” of the puzzle looks like…. But… not quite “all” of them. Perhaps you can relate to Paul in this regard? You know what you are doing, but, you just have this feeling in your gut that something might also be missing? I’ve talked with Paul quite a bit since this discussion took place, and he’ll be the first to tell you that while he certainly was not wandering around blind, there were still “pieces” he was missing out on within his trading. Paul is a great guy who I’ve apricated getting to know better and better and I’m extremely confident that whether you are brand new to trading or a seasoned veteran, there will be something that you can find of value to apply to your trading or simply use as a “reminder” of how things need to be done. Let’s get to it!


Intro: This is a Stock Trading Reality podcast. Episode 216.

Announcer: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday, normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. This is your host, who wishes people would use past history a bit more in their decision making process, Clay Trader.

Clay: Yeah, I’m not perfect at it, but there is power in the past. I get it, that’s old information, and that’s a fair point to an extent. But whether we’re talking about trading stocks, trading options, trading anything, or if we’re just talking about economies; if we’re just talking about life decisions; there is value in seeking out somebody that has maybe done something or that you were thinking about doing and basing your decision off of that. It really, it does. I wish people would use past history a little bit more in their decision making process because there is definitely wisdom in seeking out people that have either been through what you’ve done or what you’re thinking about doing, and then even from the trading perspective, yeah there is. If a certain stock bounces off $50, five times and it’s going down to $50 again, is it guaranteed to bounce off 50? No, but by using past history, that’s at least a logical decision making process. Say, “Hey, it might bounce off of 50 again.”

Clay: But again, this is much more than just trading. Hopefully, because I see the headlines, I’m not going to turn this thing into more than that, but sometimes you just got to sit and say, you know, if that person or if this so and so would have considered or just even thrown out there, what’s happened in the past? Has this ever been done before and how’d that turn out? But sometimes it doesn’t seem like that is necessarily the thought process that people go through. Do you know what I’m getting at, Chezz? I mean, do you smell what I’m stepping in or no?

Chezz: Do I smell what you’re stepping in? I absolutely do. I experience and I mean, I’ve had people steer me clear of some career choices I was going to make, strictly because they were in it and told me some pitfalls that … You don’t know what you don’t know and experience can be valuable and that, but in terms of chart history, yes. There’s a value in the past. However, it’s not going to forecast the future. It’s just showing you where things have been and where it’s possibly going to go again. It’s a possibility thing.

Clay: Well said, well said. That’s a good actual example of career choice? I don’t know. Maybe talk to somebody that’s done it before that’s doing it right now and they have past experience with it because who knows? You could save yourself … and that’s like a life decision. So I’m glad we’re on the same page there, and I did totally plagiarize … I think, actually, the show producer’s wife, IT Nate, she goes by Stacy … I’m pretty sure Stacy was the first one … I’m trying to explain something, and she says, “Yeah, I smell what you’re stepping in”. And I was like, I like you a lot, that was actually a great one-liner, so-

Chezz: Yeah, I’m gonna have to use that, that’s pretty good.

Clay: Stacy … She probably got it from her dad, now that I … cause she’s kinda … anyways, we won’t go down … nobody cares about that stuff. But, Stacy, thank you for … I think I might have just … well, it’s not plagiarizing anymore, cause I cited my source, so I’m good. Is that right, Chezz? [crosstalk] I’m trying to think back to …

Chezz: You’re not gonna get called to the principal’s office.

Clay: Yeah. Do you remember that, though, Chezz … I realize I’m derailing this, but I don’t care. I mean, back in like English class, there was like a proper way to cite stuff during papers, and … did you have to do all that?

Chezz: Yeah, there’s different formats, [crosstalk] different formats for how to do quotes and things like that, and I was like, “Why can’t we just have one format? I can’t believe you have three different formats.” I do remember those days.

Clay: Yeah, the nightmares … I’m creating nightmares for myself. But anyways, alright, we gotta get back on topic. We have an interesting … I’ll be honest, I like these interviews, because sometimes … “Clay, this is just one hidden sales pitch, because all you do is interview Clay Trader university people.” Well, no, that’s not true. Now, is it true lots of the time? Yeah, we do interview lots of Clay Trader university people that are part of the community. But at a whole, this is for the inner circle community. And yes, inner circle is lifetime membership, part of Clay Trader university, but you can just be the inner circle. And that’s what we have here, just simply an inner circle member.

Clay: He is not part of Clay Trader university, so it’s kind of like a, “Ha! Take that!” We will talk with anybody, as long as you’re part of the community, and we are talking with Paul today. And Paul, like you said, he’s kinda been … he’s going at it himself, he’s … Not himself, now he’s part of the community, but in some ways he still is. He’s choosing to tackle the market … Well, I don’t wanna offer up spoilers. Let’s just get to it, and Paul’s gonna walk you through his journey so far. Paul, welcome to the show.

Paul: Thank you.

Clay: We were just talking. Small world, you are … Did you say you’re from, or are you still in the Midland Michigan area?

Paul: I moved a bunch as a kid, and my dad worked for a bunch of companies doing marketing and promotions. At the time that was Dow Chemical. But yeah, the brief way I got there, couple of years.

Clay: Okay. So where do you live right now, out of curiosity?

Paul: I live on the Front Range of Colorado.

Clay: Oh, we’ve got another Colorado person. Now, Chezz, I can never remember the lingo. Are you on the Front Range, or are you like up in the range? How does that work?

Chezz: No, I’m up in [inaudible 00:05:44], so Front Range is not where I’m at. It’s about 3.5 hours away from me.

Clay: What is a Front Range actually mean? You’re in front of the mountains?

Chezz: Yeah. So you’re pretty much … You’re just on the front side of the mountains, which is all of Denver, and Boulder, and pretty much all of those areas that you … for the most part, saw when you were visiting.

Clay: Okay. And then, what is on the opposite side? So I guess, the back side of the mountains. What’s that called? The back range, or something?

Paul: The Western Slope.

Clay: The Western Slope, okay.

Chezz: Paul’s got it down.

Clay: I’m getting my little Colorado education here. For listeners, a little context. I’ve been out to Colorado now a couple times, cause we have a lot of members and … Hey, look, now we have Paul here, who’s also a member of the community, and in Colorado. Now, I have a bone to pick. You’ve been a member for how long, Paul?

Paul: Three, four months, maybe? You know better than me. You no doubt have metrics on me.

Clay: I was going to ask why you weren’t at the Denver meet-and-greet, but in your defense you were not a member at that time yet, so I guess you have a valid excuse on why you were not there. I guess I don’t get to apply any awkward pressure to you right now on why you avoided the in-person meetup. You just weren’t a member. So, alright, well good! We have established some context. I know, for listeners’ sake, you post usually in the pits, you’re not that active in the lounge. I mean, you show up every now and then in the lounge, right?

Paul: Yeah, I think I maybe interacted once a couple days ago.

Clay: Okay. But I know you’re, for sure … you definitely will throw up alerts and stuff in the pit, so I’m familiar with you in that sense, but I’m looking forward to getting to know that much more about you. So, on that note, where did all this start for you? Where did you first hear about the markets? What kinda played out that caused you to get that much more interested and wanting to get more hands-on with them?

Paul: How did I become crazy and decided to start day trading? That’s a good question.

Clay: Exactly, when did you go straight-jacket choppy? That is the exact question.

Paul: Like I said, my dad worked for a bunch of companies, and they have stocks, and my family had a business that they started a long, long time ago when they came here. It no longer exists, but. So I know about the stock market, I have some step brothers that work in the financial industry that make a good living doing it, so I know all about that. [inaudible] in Massachusetts, I lived down the street from Peter Winch, so [inaudible 00:08:16]. So I’m well aware of all that. But I’ve just been a maintenance man in Colorado for a long time.

Paul: I always knew about the markets, I had 401Ks and I did all that, and I would manage those by allocating funds based on [inaudible] data. I would do that and move money around, but what really … To get to the point, I met a guy at one of my son’s birthday party episodes, with the youngster, and there was a guy there that I met, and he just seemed super chill, and I talked to him. You always have the convo, “What do you do?”, and he was a day trader, and he just looked like he was unbelievably together. And I was like, “I just want what that guy does”. So I looked into that, and I thought, “You know, some day I’m gonna do that.”

Paul: I’ve had a few ups and downs, and my 401Ks evaporated. I started a business that didn’t work out, and I had a DUI that was expensive. And so, I kinda started from scratch, but I saved a ton of money over a period of time, and I opened up an account, and I started trading.

Clay: Now, when you said you looked into day trading after you spoke to this guy, what do you mean by that? Were you just googling stuff, or pulling up YouTube, or did you go and find a trading firm or someone that had young day traders?

Paul: Oh, no. This was like 15 years ago. I’m like a lifetime learner that is always read about everything, so I just read about it, you know? I just googled day trading, and it’s like, is it crazy? Is it insane? Can you make a living doing it? And I was like-

Clay: [crosstalk] So you met that gentleman 15 years ago, is that what you’re saying?

Paul: Yes.

Clay: Okay, awesome. That really kinda picks my interest because the landscape 15 years ago looks drastically different now in terms of accessibility and just ease in how easy it is, essentially, to get into the markets. So, you’re doing this reading in these books, you save up a bunch of money, and where do you open an account to start doing this day trading stuff right out the gate?

Paul: So, I got into a bunch of stuff, I’m old school. I’m 58. So I went with Schwab, just cause I think their platform is not set up for day trading at all, but everything else about it I think is outstanding. So that’s who I went with.

Clay: Okay, so you are … I guess, I mean, Schwab, just because they’re a household name, and they … Because at the time, you liked their platform. So, does this imply that you’re testing out other platforms and other softwares, or … How did you arrive to the conclusion that you like Schwab’s platform?

Paul: I just did my market research and … Like I say, I’m old school, and I don’t always trust myself with my compulsiveness to just be able to just press buttons and do stuff super fast, cause I’ve gotten in trouble doing that. So I just figured I would just go with them. I did like a trading simulator program for a little bit, and I tried a couple things out. But I mostly just wanted to figure out how it works, didn’t really care about what the platform is. I just wanted to learn how trading works.

Clay: Okay, and … Market research, in regards to … First off I wanted to commend you that you know you’re kind of impulsive, and you don’t wanna do anything in that regard. I think a lot more people should probably heed that warning. Regardless of whether you think you’re impulsive or not, and I’m talking to you as listeners, I’m probably talking to myself in a way, I assure there’s probably some impulsive nature buried somewhere inside of you that will probably come out. That’s one of those voices that certainly come out. Now, is it going to come out in the sense of, “Hey, listen, I’m impulsive voice”. No, usually it comes out in the form of forcing a trade, “Oh, I did this. Well, I gotta hurry up and do that”. So you gotta be very, very careful. But I do commend you because I feel like … And I was quite guilty of this when I got started. I didn’t realize how much impulse can be involved, especially in trading, let alone life in general.

Clay: So, you were doing that market research, and does that mean that you had signed up with other brokers beside Schwab? I’m kinda pressing on this, because this is a very common question we get, and I know a lot of new people are always wondering, “Hey, what’s the best broker for me? What platform should I be using?” Like you said, did you sign up for other brokers, or did you just kind of call up a bunch on the phone and [inaudible] that way? What was more so the quote-unquote “market research” into determining that you wanted to go with Schwab?

Paul: I just downloaded their … whatever the hell … Oh, [inaudible 00:13:12], it’s right in front of me here. I just downloaded the software and messed around with it. Not having an account, you can do that, I believe you can do that, I think I did that. Anyway, it worked out well, I just really liked … the charting is outstanding. So, that’s what I really liked. I’m super visual, and I used to work with data. I still do, all the time. A lot of these is kinda second nature. Being able to mess with the charts, and have it do what I want, and everything is really important. So I give them an A+ on that.

Clay: Okay, that makes sense. So I mean, you have … Like you said, you work with data, and that kinda gives you more confidence than maybe somebody else. So you find Schwab, and you decide this is it, I’ve done my research, I feel comfortable, I like their charts. So where do things go from that point?

Paul: I drove into Boulder and dropped off a check and … good to go. And I sat on it for about three weeks, and I used to work in the cannabis industry a little bit, I’m very interested in that, so I started watching those stocks, and that’s what I started trading with.

Clay: Now, at any point did you go through any training in terms of how to spot opportunity? Or anything to do with technical analysis at this point? Or were you just more so thinking “This is an industry I’m interested in and I’m going to buy what I think is the right level”? I’m curious to hear what your strategy was going in at the time. I love that you kinda picked an industry that you think is going somewhere, but what were you using to actually spot and trade these opportunities? Day trading, there’s a million different ways to do it.

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Paul: Oh, so. Like I said, I’m a lifetime learner, and I research, and try to science the heck out of everything. So I read the book, The Candlestick Course or whatever, pretty good book. And the whole candle idea is absolutely genius. So once I saw those, I was like, “Wow, that’s so much freaking data just at the blink of an eye.” And the whole chart patterns, and all that. I worked in the oil field industry, and used to do that for like 12 hours straight, pretty much, very similar to trading. Just watching screens, and trends, and [inaudible] data in real time, and all that.

Clay: Gotcha. So you definitely had a little bit of a background, which is pretty cool to hear.

Paul: Right, so, this is funny, I was so into the candles, that at first I would trade with no other indicators other than the last day close and the candles.

Clay: I mean, there’s nothing wrong with keeping it simple if it works. How did that end up working for you?

Paul: So, I traded Tilray, TLRY, almost exclusively. And if you pull up the dailies for like September, you’ll see that it worked out very well. Anybody, an aunt, would have made money trading that stock that month. So I thought I was like a rockstar, and after the 19th or the 27th or whatever day that it peaked, I knew it was over. And like I said, I was into the industry, and I had my own business in that industry, Industrial Hemp, and that’s what that company actually is into. I was blown away at how overvalued … The whole thing, I was so hesitant, every time it would go down even the slightest bit I was like, “Oh, the whole world has figured out this is a complete joke”. But, it never happened. Every day I would just do it for a little bit, but I never took too much money each day either, cause I was just afraid of getting greedy and get burnt.

Clay: Sure. And I mean, at what price did you really know, regarding Tilray, that it was over? Cause obviously that chart was just an absolute monster, going from under 20 bucks to over 300 dollars. At what point was it just that big blow off, where you’re like, “Well, this is up hundreds and thousands of percent”?

Paul: I mean, the whole thing. From probably mid August, I was watching it. Like I say, I have a background with family members who deal with the real world stock, so I just knew this was like a unicorn, or whatever you guys would call it. I was like, this is a brand new industry, no doubt almost everybody who’s investing is either playing this, or has no idea what’s going on. That’s how I was looking at it. And I figured at any moment it was gonna completely collapse. At any moment, cause it seemed like a joke. I didn’t know about the whole momentum … I’m learning a lot.

Clay: Now, you did trade it though, right?

Paul: Oh, absolutely. At first-

Clay: Let me ask this. Are you telling this from a hindsight’s perspective? Cause, from the way I’m hearing it, and correct me if I’m wrong, you thought it was over, you thought it was crazy, but yet you’re still trading it. So why would you be trading it if you thought that it was over?

Paul: Because I was only using the candles, and I was also kinda swing trading a little bit, to avoid the day trader aspect. But I would just enter and watch it go up, and the minute it would [inaudible] … So I had no idea what it was actually doing, because I didn’t have any other indicators going … I would just exit. But I would make money, I’m like, okay, cool.

Clay: [crosstalk] So it’s safe to say, would you agree that you really were just making it up as you went? I mean, it doesn’t sound like there was much thought process, other than I know what a candle stick is, let’s go trade. Or was there some sort of sequencing process that I’m missing out on right now?

Paul: No, I mean, I forget … I did have volume, too. So, those were the three things I was looking at. But yeah, I could just kind of tell that it was gonna go south a little bit, and because … Yeah, you’re right, I had no idea. No clue about how it really worked, until when it peaked, I stopped that. When I started trading real stocks, I had my ass handed to me, like really bad.

Clay: Okay, alright, good. So I like it what you said, “Even an aunt could have money on Tilray”, which is true. Just for context sake, and I know Chezz has mentioned this, but at one time I was sub-20, and then on its final day, it went up and hit 300 dollars. And then on that same day it hit 300, it closed at 214 dollars. So, that’s an 85 dollar drop in the same day that it had hit that peak. Were you trading on that day?

Paul: No. To answer your question, when it got fully parabolic, I was like, “I’m out of here, I’m not even gonna …”. You know, the last couple days, I knew … And I was watching the news, and I’ve actually interacted with Brendan Kennedy and those guys years ago, so I almost thought it was a pump and dump. I’m like, “I’m out of here”. So I did kinda stop that. But I’d made like 5500 dollars on it.

Clay: Okay. So at that point, gotcha, you were just … You figured this was way too crazy. So I’ll give you credit there, that’s good. But to follow up with what you said, alright, now you’re done with this one, and you’re like “Okay, well.” At this point, did you really feel like you understood trading? Were you pretty confident in yourself?

Paul: Sad to say, I was confident in myself, and I was so wrong.

Clay: Well, I mean, that’s … Listen, and that’s what makes market … To the listeners out there, this is what makes the market so challenging is … It was logical. “Hey, I just started this thing called trading. Hey, I know what a candle stick is. Hey, I read this book. Hey, I’m up 5500 dollars.” Why wouldn’t you say, “Hey, I’m good at this.” That makes sense. He’s read a book, he knows what a candle stick is, he knows what volume is, he’s made 5500 dollars, so the next sequence of logic would not be, “I have no idea what I’m doing”. When you don’t know what you don’t know, of course he’s gonna think so. I get what you mean by sadly, but it’s not like it was a stupid thought to have or anything, that’s a more than valid thought to have.

Clay: I’m trying to think, when this airs … But there’s still a lot of that going on right now within the … And this is how any bubble operates. Things are going up, things are going up, things are going up, and new people are like, “Hey, I’m really good at this.” And then, you gotta try to talk to them softly and say, “Well, you gotta understand that this is kinda like a big bubble. This is kinda crazy right now. So it doesn’t necessarily take that much skill to make money.” Because as soon as this stock, or this sector, returns to normal … not necessarily the bubble the pops, in the sense that everything goes to zero, I’m talking about the skill bubble. And when that skill bubble pops, meaning now you can’t just buy and wait for it to go up, cause it’s just been going straight up. When that gets involved, that’s the wake-up call, which is … You’ve kinda already let [inaudible 00:22:21], but that sounds exactly what happened to you.

Clay: So you finished with Tilray, and then you went and started to trade quote-unquote “normal stocks”. So, how did that go?

Paul: So, it’s interesting that you keep saying that you don’t know what you don’t know. I’ve heard you probably say that phrase more than anything during these. Someone told me once about the four stages of learning, and that’s the first one. You’re unconsciously incompetent, you don’t even know that you don’t know. But then you’re consciously incompetent, and that’s why I say sadly, cause I didn’t know. I’m trying to get to that conscious competent stage, and I wanna really get to the stage where I think you guys are at, which is unconscious competence, where you’re just trading, and you just know what you’re doing.

Paul: So, okay, yes. So I started trading real stocks, and I think I did LULU, Lululemon, and it worked out okay. And then, I know this is gonna be time-lagged, but there’s a stock today that I called out was the one that I … I was like, “Okay, I’m just gonna go big, I’ve made big money, I’m gonna put down a thousand on this stock.” Right at the open it went up a little bit, and then it dove, and I stopped out and lost 500 or 600 bucks, and I’m like … I got angry. I don’t know what happened, I had no idea. And I just loaded up another thousand, and it dove. And I hadn’t really set up a stop, and it just guillotined. And I froze, and I didn’t know what I was doing, and I did some really crazy calculations. Like, even if it went to zero, my account wouldn’t be gone.

Clay: This was all today?

Paul: But the bottom line is … No, no, this was October 5th-

Clay: I’m assuming this is on SAEX, cause I see that you alluded to that today, so is this the stock you were referring to?

Paul: Yes, absolutely. And I worked in the oil industry, and so I was trying to play fundamentals, and it had gapped up I believe, and I went back like a week or two, and it had been at like 20 dollars or something … I’m not looking at the chart right now. But you know, I was like, “Oh wow, it’s gapped, and I’ve read that when they gap, they tend to go in that same direction, it’s gonna go up to …” You know, I was like “Oh yeah, it’s just gonna do a bounce.” You know, I was right, and I had no idea about anything, really. And it just chopped me, and that was a huge hit. And then, I had what I would call the darkness, which was the next couple months after that, where I had to learn from scratch how to trade. And I will say this, I wish I had taken some of your courses, cause I would have not lost all that month.

Clay: I mean, ego is a very, very interesting thing. I would much rather lose a bunch of money than actually admit that we’re wrong, and we’ll always find ways to kind of manipulate a decision we’ve made to make it reflect us in the best light. Honestly, that’s all part of the learning experience. The big thing is … Granted, you might have taken a couple losses … The thing is, you gotta … As long as you learn from that, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Obviously, you can realize now, especially looking back at it, that was completely foolish. Would you agree?

Paul: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I removed the stop. Everything. It was crazy. I have no problem admitting that.

Clay: Yeah. I’m telling you, the psychology side of trading is something I’d say is absolutely fascinating cause that was what my holdup was for a long time. Obviously, you recognize this and you’re moving forward, I’d hope. Have you have any more incidents of removing your stop losses in your trading, or have you been trading it all actually since then?

Paul: I’ve been trading every day that I can.

Clay: But you haven’t had any of those setbacks, have you?

Paul: Not like that, no. I’ve never done that again. I’ve been a rock climber most of my life, I know about risk management. If you take a whipper and you don’t die, maybe you shouldn’t do that again. Some things stick. That one will stay.

Clay: Yeah, there’s definitely lessons that are standout lessons, and the key emphasis though is just like you said, ensuring that you don’t die. Obviously, you’ve learned from that, and moving forward, how has your trading been? Have you just been focusing on more [inaudible] stocks? Or are you still looking for those crazy high volatility ones at day trade?

Paul: Well, I’m always looking at the stock in play. I’m not gonna day trade anything that’s gonna be dull. But I’m way conservative now. And I don’t have to do this at all for income, that is my [inaudible 00:27:19]. I’m fortunate in that I don’t make a whole lot of money, I don’t need to spend a whole lot of money. Any money that I make is a bonus, is positive cash flow for me. So, I’m gonna stick with it.

Paul: The mental game is … So now I’m reading books about the mental game, cause in climbing, a little bit of physical fitness, that’s really all you need. But it’s 90%, if not more, in your head. Fear and stuff like that, and greed in trading, those two just are bad for me.

Clay: I wanna learn more about your actual strategy itself, because you said you’re still trading, you’re trading pretty much every day. I call Chezz, I’m glad to hear you haven’t had any more instances like SAEX was for you. Walk us through your strategy. What are you looking for? And we’ll kinda see where that takes us.

Paul: Oh okay. So, I get up early, and I look at … Well, the night before I usually look at the earnings for the next day, and I make like a watch list of those. And so, when I get up I look at that and I just … Schwab’s, their screeners are fine for me, it’s pretty much most of the stuff … I think you must have some specialty screens, but most of those big ones show up right away for me anyway. And so, I look at those; I look at the premarket; I look for clean, solid, premarket movement; and I-

Clay: Okay, okay, I’m gonna pause you there. Define clean. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying I don’t know what you mean by clean. So, how do you define clean?

Paul: You know, if it’s not a stock in play, or any stock, like postmarket after a couple hours, you just get little move … You know, there’s sort of … There’s no definitive candles, there’s no easily defined trends, you don’t really see it trying to test anything. It’s just kinda, you know… Block trades, or some weird stuff happening, you’re not really sure what’s going on. That’s unclean. There’s gaps, there’s little dojis everywhere, nothing’s really happening.

Paul: But there’s somewhere, it looks like it’s actually a day … During the day, the volume is almost like … Or even bigger than normal, for the thing, before the market even opens. And it looks like a regular chart to me. You know, the candles-

Clay: Okay, so that’s how you’re defining clean, where if, let’s say, you didn’t know what time it was, and you pulled up a chart, and you had to guess, is it premarket? Or is it after hours? Or is the market open? You’re saying, I don’t know what time it is, but based on how that chart is acting, my guess would be the market is open right now. And somebody said, actually no, it’s premarket. That’s what you would define as a clean setup that you’re looking for during the premarket. Is that accurate?

Paul: Yeah, that to me is something I’d be very interested in. As an ambush predator, that would be nice prey to be watching.

Clay: There you go. So that’s your little bunny rabbit setup is, you want to see a stock acting clean. So in average, you just wanna see well above average volume of what the stock normally gets in a premarket type trading, okay? That’s part of what you’re scanning for. What’s the next part of the strategy?

Paul: Well, then I pull up the daily, and I look for big real estate, key real estate I believe you guys call it, and I will make marks on my chart for that. Obviously what’s just happened in the premarket is really important. And then, the trend [inaudible] and all that. For me the volume weighted average price is probably what I look at the most as well. But I just kind of watch it, and then … I used to be really hesitant about getting in really early, I’d let like 15 minutes go by and enter, but I’ve been more confident about just … If it looks like it’s gonna go a certain way, then I’ll get in there; and if it’s going my way, great; and if it looks like it’s not, then I get out right away, and cut my losses as short as I can.

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Clay: So you say, if it looks like it’s gonna go your way … So what is your ideal setup? What is going to make you think, “Hey, that looks like it’s gonna go my way”?

Paul: The candles are … I’m a long bias person. I’ve only done four short trades out of 300 or so. So that’s something I need to work on, probably for my old school. I didn’t even know you could short stocks til I started doing that. That’s the course I should take. But anyway, I just see increasing volume and increasing size of the bars within reason, if I start seeing that I know I’m chasing. Right at the bottom, like a hammer with massive volume under it, then I’m really interested, and then I look for one good confirming move right after that, and then I’ll jump on that.

Clay: Now, are you trading on … What time frame are you trading on? It’s like the one minute, or are you trading tick charts?

Paul: I don’t look at the one, I look at two, five, and daily. Those are the only charts I look at.

Clay: Gotcha. I would hope and assume that you’re kinda utilizing a conjunction of all three, especially to kinda figure out your bias. I know that you’re primarily a long bias trader. Regardless of that though, I’d assume something on a nasty downtrend on the daily, you’re not necessarily staring at it for opportunities to go along, are you?

Paul: No, what you all call a dead cat trading, or cat bounce, whatever … I look for stuff like that to exploit.

Clay: Gotcha, gotcha. Obviously, most stuff for day trading, you can trade a lot of things that are just in plate. Do you focus on a specific time in the morning? Do you only kinda focus on the first hour or two? Or are you at the desk most of the day? Or do you come back in the afternoon? What’s a normal day look like for you when you come and sit down at the desk?

Paul: So I have gone to part time with my regular job, because I can afford to, so I have from open until 1 o’clock [inaudible] to trade every day. And then Fridays, like today … Nobody knows what day it is, but … And then on the Friday of the week I have all day off to trade. But what I’ve learned is that … The whole lunch time thing … It took me a long time and painful lessons to figure that out. This is a lot of little details. It’s interesting. And I love it, because I don’t think you can ever stop learning.

Clay: Well, with the markets [crosstalk] always evolving, you need to always evolve or you’re left behind, that’s just kind of the nature of it. And like you’ve said before, it’s definitely a great example of lifetime learning, which I mean, you being a rock climber and stuff like that, you don’t just stop learning how to rock climb, you gotta get better if you ever wanna go higher.

Paul: That’s true. But you have to go for it, too. I often suffer from hesitancy as well. But because I don’t have to trade, I can see that limiting me sometimes.

Clay: As much as you might think that limits you, I would disagree. I kinda think that that actually is a very big point of strength. You’re not trading out of a position of weakness in terms of, “Oh I need to nail this next trade, or I can’t keep my lights on.” I assure you, we have people like that, that we deal with in the customer service realm all the time, that are like, “My back’s against the wall, so now I really need to learn how to trade.” And I’m like, “No.”

Clay: At that point, you know … You said that you’re hesitant sometimes, and that’s a thing you’re working on. These people are the complete opposite of hesitant and they are so [inaudible] that they’re just throwing money blindly and they’re treating it more like a lottery ticket. From what I gather from you, the fact that when you see the tides turning, however that might be, whatever you use to kinda distinguish that, if you’re able to click the Cancel button, the Close button, Reverse, whatever it is to get you out of a position that is going south, you’re not even close to gambling, which not everybody has the strength to do.

Paul: Right. And I’m a plant breeder, and so there’s certain rules that you have to be ruthless about, and when you’re not getting what you want, you just instantly destroy that crop, it’s over. You’re not in the business of losing money, or breeding bad plants. I just try to maximize my gains. And that’s the most simple thing that they say all the time, but that was actually the hardest thing for me to do. It’s the classic … you know, letting your losses run, because I wanna be right, and then being so freaked out about making a dollar, that you just cut your wings so short. That’s where the mental game is, what I’m really focusing on now.

Clay: Yeah, you nailed it. It’s weird how … and I’ve done videos on this … how the mind works, and all that … Cause if you’ve never traded, you’re like, “Well, if you’re losing money, just put the bandage on, stop losing money, and then you can go out there and make some more.” But I don’t know, there’s just something that’s like, “Oh no, it’ll come back, and I don’t have to …” and then, all sorts of justification voices show up, and before you know it, like you said, the losses just continue to run.

Clay: And then, when you do get that win, you’re like, “Oh, I’m actually winning, I wanna have a winner.” And then you sell it way too soon, and then it just continues on in your direction, whatever that direction may be. So you’re definitely not alone in that regard at all.

Clay: So, is it fair to say then that you’re … We like to just talk about … and I know you know this since you’ve listened to episodes … but kinda just talking about losses, how do you deal with them, how do they affect you. But from what you said, you are … is it safe to say you are a work in progress when it comes to the losses? Or would you say that you’re pretty good now, it’s just that, “Oh, I was wrong. Oh, I need to get out.” And then you just get out. Or is that still something you’re kinda chipping away at?

Paul: No, no. You use that term, robotic trading. That’s why I kinda went with [inaudible 00:37:56], cause there’s a brilliant marketing, and it’s true. You ask anybody what a robot is, hopefully they say it’s something that you program to do something and it doesn’t think for itself, it reacts to input. Sometimes the machine might not come in front of the robot, or it might make a bad move, or whatever. But I don’t overthink it. Yeah, some trades don’t work out, it’s just the way it is.

Clay: So you have no problem just letting that … Let me ask this, do you put in hard stops?

Paul: Yeah. I put in … there’s a maximum amount I allow myself to not make … of loss on a trade. And I will never lower the stock below that point. I’ll raise it, to reduce my losses, but I’ll never increase it once I’ve entered the trade. That’s like a hard rule for me.

Clay: Okay, so the stop loss is based off of the amount you’re willing to lose on a trade. Is that accurate?

Paul: Absolutely. And the other thing that was really hard for me to learn, and for me, it’s not about when you get into the trade, it’s all about your position, size, and when you get out of the trade, that I’ve learned is how you make the money.

Clay: That was a perfect segue into my follow-up question. May I give you my two cents? Can I give you my thoughts?

Paul: Sure.

Clay: Okay. So, as you just said, your stop loss is based on the amount that you’re willing to lose. So my wonderment … I’m not saying anything is wrong … but, what happens if that amount just puts you … Like, okay, well, I can lose that amount, so therefore my stop loss has to be there. And let’s say there, as far as the chart is concerned, is what would be a very illogical spot to put a stop loss for various reasons out there. How do you factor in that potential where you’re lining your max loss, drive your stop loss, which I understand the logic, but … unless I’m missing something … what happens if … Okay, that is my line in the sand, so I don’t violate the amount that I’m willing to lose, but if that line in the sand is at a spot, somewhere very illogical as far as the chart is concerned …

Paul: No, no, no. Okay, I’ve said that all wrong. So I look for a resistance, or a support level, that I think technically makes a ton of sense that it shouldn’t go past, right? And then there’s a sense at risk, right? And then I divide the amount that I-

Clay: [crosstalk] To get your position size, right? That’s how you determine-

Paul: [crosstalk] Exactly.

Clay: As long as you’re utilizing that support, resistance, whatever you wanna use … Quite a good question, cause if we didn’t have clarified that part …

Paul: So, if it looks like it’s only gonna be a handful of shares, and it’s only moving a couple pennies, its trading range is a joke, then I move on right away. But if it looks lucrative as hell, then I’ll take it.

Clay: Okay. I just wanna clarify, cause sometimes new people are like, “What’s a stop loss, 5%?” 5% of what, what I got in? Okay, so now [crosstalk 00:41:11]. 5% is so arbitrary. But I know that’s not what you’re doing. You’ve clarified now, I’m just explaining where my question was coming from, cause we see a lot of stuff where people, they’re like “Yeah, I managed risk, I have a stop loss.” And then you’re like, “Okay, how is that stop loss determined?” And then it’s just some arbitrary percentage, and it’s like, well, you realize that that percentage could put you on a location on a chart that would make no sense from a charting perspective. These are the people who are always like, “I always get cheap shotted out. I always get stopped, and then it goes in my favorites.” Well, based on where you put your stop loss, I can see you would have gotten stopped out, and then it went in your favor. But when the percentage is driving everything, that’s where you’re at risk.

Clay: As you’ve explained now, that is not … You’re first starting with the chart, and then from the chart you’re running your calculations and basing off of position size and all that. I appreciate that for clarity sake, for new listeners out there.

Paul: But I exactly did what you just said, too. So I learned that the hard way. And again, I probably could have taken a course and learned about that as well.

Clay: [crosstalk] How much money did it cost you, you think, to kinda go about that? Cause you’ve said it several times now. “Yeah, I probably could have saved myself that”. So, how much money do you think you could have saved yourself?

Paul: Oh, well, I lost almost all of that 5500. So, I mean …

Clay: So free isn’t free.

Paul: Right, free isn’t free. But just learning one little nugget about any number of things that I know that you offer would have been way worth it. [crosstalk] The money that I spent getting just in the chat has paid off immeasurably. Well, I can measure it, but it’s a lot. It’s been really nuts.

Clay: Okay, that’s actually a good segue, because Chezz, we’re talking behind the scenes, and he said, “You know, we never actually asked him what got him to the chat, to the community.” So, how did you even find the universe, if you will? What led you to finally sign up and join the community? I realize, listeners, we’re going a little bit backwards here, but… Chezz’s and I’s apologies, we forgot to bring that up. What actually brought you to the community?

Paul: So I realized that I needed to be part of a community like this, and so I just googled the different communities, and then, no doubt, the way the internet works or whatever, I clicked on something, somehow we got connected, and I started reading some of your stuff, and you looked like a normal person, and I believe you talked about losses, and you seemed like you were pretty straightforward. Other people that I saw were trading with their laptop in their hot tub and I’m like, “I don’t know if I want a teacher that might destroy their trading platform by dropping it in the water.” You know, it just seemed realistic.

Clay: [crosstalk] It’s much more appropriate to just spill champagne when you’re on your laptop than a hot tub. I mean, come on now.

Paul: Right, and I’ve traded-

Clay: Let’s clear it up. I’ve spilled Cristal on my [crosstalk 00:44:24], and I don’t even use a laptop or tablet, you bunch of losers. I use my phone. So sometimes I spill Cristal on my phone, but yeah.

Paul: That’s funny. So yeah, like I say, my dad was in marketing and promotions, and he was very good at that. He’s retired now. And so, I probably have some of that in me too, so I’m fascinated to watch how you go about it, cause obviously that’s what you do, you have to. People do need to learn, and so I’m like, “I’m just gonna go with this guy.” And then, what really clenched it was, I think, something about, for the price of a coffee a week or something you could be in the chat, and I’m like, well yeah, why not?

Paul: And then I also figured I could hack the chat as much as I could, and get as much intel just by learning through watching what other people were doing.

Clay: Now, were you ever a part of any other kind of chatroom based communities, or alert services, or anything like that, prior to coming here? Or were you just kinda using your screeners and finding your opportunities that way?

Paul: Negative. No, I never went with anybody, this is it.

Clay: Interesting, interesting. Is it safe to say you primarily get the most value out of the alert room, right? Especially if you’re focusing strictly on day trades for the most part?

Paul: Yeah. So, you know, you guys use some lingo. And the other thing I should mention is that I’ve spent entire days just relaxing and watching the stocks just move for an entire day, with no intention of trading whatsoever, just to learn. And so, you guys use like … I’m still not quite clear what a [inaudible] is, but you know, I’ll just see an alert and I’ll go to that chart, and I’m like “Okay, what are they talking about? What are they thinking they’re seeing here?”

Paul: And the other thing I really like is that it’s super neutral. Everybody uses the word potential, or whatever, and that’s a 50/50, you know? And so you leave it up to us to figure out for ourselves, but all the intel that I see is pretty much spot-on.

Clay: Yeah, I think that’s the big that’s separated our community from the others, and I’m speaking from experience, cause I was a part of quite a few communities before I actually landed here. There’s potentials and ways to play stocks in any direction. And when I say any direction, I don’t even mean completely neutral, where you think it’s not gonna go anywhere. There’s ways to make money doing that.

Clay: But the whole thing here is that … You know, I use this example, I probably haven’t said in a while. Me and [inaudible] traded the same alert on Google a long time ago, and he made money on the long side and I made money on the short side. The whole thing is, just like you said, it’s all about how you see this pattern playing out, or what your risk profile is, or your timeframe.

Clay: That’s the whole thing. When you don’t have somebody pushing a bias in your ear, it’s completely up to you. And just like you said, if you know what you’re doing, you can get some value out of it. So yeah, for the price of a cup of coffee per week, I think it’s safe to say you made more than your $99 dollars for a year.

Paul: Yeah. Big time. In seconds.

Clay: Now, kinda going forward … What are you gonna be working on towards the rest of 2019 in terms of expanding your knowledge? Are you just gonna keep kinda pushing a button and staying active and hope that summer isn’t completely a boredom fest? Or you got some [inaudible] plans you’re trying to work through?

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Paul: I have a daily goal. I think I mentioned that in the chat, and someone said something about not having goals or whatever. But that’s what I do. I just have a plan, and I’m just trying to stick with it. If I can make 200 a day, I’ll be making more money that I’ve ever worked in a conventional a job, or as much, you know? My expenses are super low, so [inaudible 00:48:30]. Everything that I make right now is a bonus. If I make 25 dollars a day, that’s like a 100% increase in my positive cashflow for the month.

Clay: Now, 200 dollars, I’m assuming … is that your daily goal?

Paul: Yeah. If I can make 200, that would be great. And I don’t like to lose more than 50 in a day.

Clay: Okay. Alright. So, bear with me. Let’s just say this. Let’s say you’re at 175 dollars on the day. Are you still there? Are you like, “Okay, let’s just do one more, so I can make 25 buck more.” Or are you just, “I’m good. I’m good at 175.” How does this hypothetical scenario … how would that make you feel? You’re sitting at 175.

Paul: So, greed is brutal for me. I’ve learned the hard way, yeah. If I’m close, like I say, it’s a positive for me. There’s nothing bad about it whatsoever. It’s good, I’m making money. I’m out of there. But I wasn’t always like that. I would trade again, and then I’d be down, and then I’d be chasing my tail, and that’s not on. That’s not the ambush predator that I wanna be.

Clay: Okay. So, at this present time, if you just were at 175, you have no problem staying at 175. You’re totally happy?

Paul: Yep.

Clay: Okay, alright. Then, I guess, you’re a rare exception then, because a lot of people are like, “Oh, but I wanna get 200. I’m so close to 200. So let me just make one more trade.” And then all of a sudden things go bad. [inaudible 00:50:11], and for the sake of being so close to some arbitrary goal that they set out there. But, if you’re totally fine, and you feel no temptations, if you feel no anything at all to make one more trade to get just 25 dollars more, then hey, more power to you. That’s a good attribute to have.

Clay: Me personally, I don’t know. If I threw out some number, I would be like, “Oh, I’m so close. Just one more.” And I’ve had some instances where I’m like, what’s just happened? I was already close enough, but close enough wasn’t quite right for me. So that’s why I’ve learned, and that’s why some people are just like, “Don’t even worry about goals, just take what the market gives, and as long as [inaudible] numbers out there, then you can’t be close to anything, because there’s no number to even begin with.”

Paul: [crosstalk] That’s valuable, too.

Clay: [crosstalk] Well I don’t know, Paul, are you not being honest with yourself? If you’re sitting at 175, are you telling me that maybe there is a little temptation to just make one more trade? Cause it’s only 25 dollars, Paul.

Paul: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely there’s temptation.

Clay: Well there you go, Paul. Paul, you’re dishonest. You said you felt perfectly fine.

Paul: Well, you’ve got to shut those voices down a little bit. I mean …

Clay: Right, but my point is, the voice wouldn’t exist if there’s no goal there in the first place.

Paul: Well, I’m human. What I’ve learned is, the vast run of the day, when you’re snowboarding or whatever, that’s dangerous. If you’re kinda knackered, and you’re bouldering, and you pick a high ball … That’s probably when you’re gonna end up in the emergency room. I’ve kinda just learned that, yeah, there is that nagging voice, but I do … So I’m not, you’re right, I was dishonest. I wasn’t 100% cool with it. But I’m cool enough with it to walk away.

Clay: But it’s still a nagging voice, so why even allow a nagging voice to exist? That’s kinda my question here. You admitted it’s a nagging voice, and even though you said you can deal with it, why even create something that you have to deal with? Why not just totally eliminate … There’s already plenty of other things that I know you know as a trader you have to deal with. So why create even one more nagging voice that’s gotta be dealt with?

Paul: You’re right, and like I said, there’s value to that approach of, why bother? If you’re in the green, just keep going …

Clay: Or if you’re in the red too, cause red can always red-der.

Paul: Right, and so I’m brutal about keeping that to a minimum.

Clay: I do like how it’s a 50 dollar cap, and that’s definitely a way … But also, at that point, have you ever been at 75 dollars? Or are you pretty good at keeping it at 50? Cause I guess where I’m going with this question is, let’s just say, maybe slippage gets used. So slippage all of a sudden, poof, puts you at 75 dollars. And now you’re thinking, “Oh, crap. I was only supposed to lose 50. So let me just make 25 dollars more, so I can get back up to 50.” Or is that not really an issue out there?

Paul: You know, I’ve broken both of those rules, and I think it was just yesterday maybe that I was down beyond the 50, and even though it was a chase, and even though I knew about Tilray, there was a stock in play yesterday that moved 55 dollars, I believe, during the day, and I jumped on that for a little bit, and did very well, and I was like, “Okay, cool”. So yeah, sometimes … Like an ambush predator thinks … sometimes you have to break the rules, just because something unexpected comes up and risk vs reward seems worth it.

Clay: You’re talking about BPTH I would assume, cause I think it’s been a freak of nature. You said you had to hop on that one. Where did you hop on that one at, out of curiosity?

Paul: I don’t have that in front of me, and I had to leave for work, actually. I think it went up three dollars or something, it took like 45 seconds, and I was like, “I’m done, I’m going to work. I don’t wanna watch this.” And then, when I was at work, I was like … I pulled it up on my phone, and it was way below where I was like, “Oh yeah, I’m glad I did what I did.”

Clay: But you don’t remember your entry point?

Paul: I’d have to log in and …

Clay: Was it above 50?

Paul: Oh, no no no no no. It was like at … I think I got it at 40-50.

Clay: Okay, so you were getting in around 40, then.

Paul: I think [inaudible 00:54:49], something about a wolf or something, and I looked at it and there was a blip of red, and then I’m like, “No.”. This is one of those things where it’s just crazy, and let’s just jump on it and just move your stock right with it and see what happens. And that’s what I did.

Clay: Gotcha, okay. Well, I was just … For listeners out there, at the time of this recording, BPTH just happened, and to give you a little … Actually, this will turn into a great plug for the newsletter. It was alerted to the newsletter community at 4.75 dollars. We’re in the newsletter, and I put some videos out at this point. But I said, “Hey, if it pulls back to like the 4.75 range, that’s a good pullback, cause you don’t wanna chase it. But if it pulls to 4.75 dollars, that might be a good little pullback entry for a risk vs reward perspective.”

Clay: And then, literally the same week after it hit 4.75, it has since gone on … And like I said, in a matter of two days, it went up and hit a high of 73.52 dollars. So, BPTH from 4.75 newsletter alert, up to 73 dollars. Over 1400% move. [crosstalk] That you weren’t chasing that, [inaudible] Paul, that’s what I’m a little worried about. I mean, you don’t feel like chasing it or anything?

Paul: Yeah, of course. But like I say-

Clay: [crosstalk] You are a “Yes, of course, you were chasing”?

Paul: Well …

Clay: I’m not saying you were, I’m just asking, [crosstalk] cause I know exactly how the chart looked like. Okay. So you know chasing is bad, though, right?

Paul: Well, my definition of chasing is, I’ve missed the reversal. I’m not anywhere near the beginning of this move, but it looks like it’s fine. Yeah, it’s chasing, it’s super dangerous. The minute I grab it, it could roll, and I’m done. And I know how that goes. But sometimes, you know, my idea of-

Clay: [crosstalk] So you wanna take a gamble, is what you’re saying.

Paul: Yeah, sometimes the impulsive gambler in me pops up, even today.

Clay: Okay.

Chezz: [crosstalk] He’s being honest.

Paul: I wish I had-

Clay: [crosstalk] No judgements, I just want to make sure I understand the process. Cause 40 was pretty high when it opened up at 20. But, hey-

Paul: [crosstalk] Oh yeah, absolutely.

Clay: So yeah. But you did say you threw a stop on us real quick, and you were gonna be aggressive with all that. So it’s not like you were like, “I’m really glad you’re saying, I knew it was oversensible. I’m gonna take a gamble, so I bought them, and then I just went to work, and I’ll check back when I get home.” That would have been really, really bad. But that wasn’t what you said. So I’m glad you’re focused on still keeping an eye on it.

Clay: Paul is not exaggerating when he says that it went up three dollars within a couple minutes. This thing was absolutely flying on the day that Paul was talking about. So that is, by no means, an exaggeration on his part.

Clay: Paul, looking at the time here, we’ll have to star to wrap things up. As of right now, you’re trading all that, what are some things that you would consider your strengths?

Paul: Patience. I’m in this for the long haul. I didn’t become a really good rock climber overnight, but at the end of it I was really, really good. And that’s very rewarding. I’m just taking my time. I think I’m pretty good at analyzing data, and I think I’m pretty good at being ruthless about just knowing when to call it. There’s always another … I always want to live to trade another day.

Clay: Yeah, that’s a crucial part for playing the long game. Obviously, people couldn’t tell, our listeners out there, that Paul’s not trying to win the lotto here. He’s trying to just do this successfully over the long haul. You gotta have that mentality. What would you say are some weaknesses, though, that you’re gonna be working on?

Paul: I have that impulsive … you know, that wizard brain or whatever, that everybody has. That voice that is trying to control … The mental game is what I’m probably weakest at, and working the most on.

Clay: Cool. Good. Well, I’m glad … I always get a little … not that I thought you were gonna do this, but you never know … “Weaknesses? Nah, I’m good.” It’s like, okay! But, good, I’m glad you realize that there’s always something to work on. I think you said, way back when, you’re a lifelong learner, so I’m not shocked by that answer.

Clay: I’m sure you’re aware, and Chezz’s gotta be happy again, because shipping costs will be very, very low … Who knows, maybe he’ll personally transport it … But Chezz does have a time machine. So, if you could go back to the beginning of all this, Paul, and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?

Paul: I would have taken some ClayTrader university courses prior to trading a lot.

Clay: [crosstalk] And you were not paid to say that, right? There’s no-

Paul: [crosstalk] Absolutely not, no. That’s from being someone who’s just done a lot of stuff, and tried to start his own businesses, and learned the hard way that you don’t know it all, and there are people out there, and if you think they’re a solid person and you can learn from them, then you should do it.

Clay: Okay, great. I’ll send you the bottle of Cristal. I’ll get your shipping address after this, okay?

Paul: [crosstalk] I want it delivered via drone to my hot tub, please.

Clay: Anything you want for saying that. I appreciate that, Paul. Alright, well. Thank you, I’m glad you appreciate and acknowledge and see the value in all that. However, it’s now time to get extra serious with questions such as … I’m gonna kick off the party. What is your favorite movie?

Paul: Probably The Matrix.

Clay: Alright. Me and Paul are good friends now, cause that’s easily one of my favorite movies.

Chezz: Oh, it’s a classic. It was ahead of its time, that’s what it was, with that crazy slow motion stuff.

Paul: That, or the The Boondock Saints, was another riveting one.

Clay: Also a really good one.

Chezz: That is a good one.

Clay: What about food and dessert? What do you chow on down in the Front Range?

Paul: Say what?

Clay: What’s your favorite food and dessert?

Paul: Food and dessert? I’m not much of a foodie. I just eat like basic beans and rice and cheese and meat and vegetables. I’m boring. I don’t spend a lot of money.

Clay: [crosstalk] Nothing wrong with that. That’s fine man.

Paul: No dessert. No sugar. It’s bad for you. It’ll screw up your brain.

Clay: You going out after this to catch some crickets?

Paul: What’s that?

Clay: Are you gonna go out after this and catch some crickets?

Paul: Sure.

Clay: [crosstalk] That’s nice. I like a good protein source. Cost-effective protein source. What about hobbies? What do you like to do outside the market?

Paul: I’m very into horticulture. I hike a lot, cause I don’t really climb anymore, cause I’m getting older. I’m really into all kinds of scientific stuff, aquariums, whatever. I’ve got a microscope on my kitchen table.

Clay: That’s pretty awesome. And, if you had to pick three words that sum up successful trading, what would these three words be?

Paul: Patience, discipline, faith.

Clay: I like it. With authority. Clear and concise.

Chezz: He knew it.

Clay: Awesome, awesome. Well Paul … For listeners context sake, we’re talking on a Friday afternoon, so I really appreciate it. Cause I know, I understand from some people’s point of view it’s like, “Oh, Friday? I just kinda wanna relax on Friday.” But here Paul is taking some time out of his day to come and do this. So Paul, I thank you very much for hanging out with us.

Paul: You bet. Thanks for offering your services.

Clay: And hopefully you’ll be one to come back at another point in the future, so we can keep up to date on how your journey continues to unfold. Does that sound like a plan?

Paul: Oh, definitely.

Clay: Awesome. Good!

Paul: Always a good debrief, is good.

Clay: Yes. Debriefings can be beneficial for sure. So, on that note, before we totally end things, a few final things if you are listening to this on the YouTube channel. Please check out the rest of the channel, there’s a whole lot of other stuff like trade videos, quick tip videos … a multitude of other different videos and segments and all that. So hopefully you decide to subscribe to the video or to the channel and like the video.

Clay: If you’re listening on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, then make sure to subscribe so you can keep up to date when new content comes out. And especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating, and some positive feedback, we would really appreciate that, and that goes a long way.

Clay: And finally, if you are listening at on the show notes page, then click that Share button. Down below the thumbnail image there is an area for comments, so we will read those, we will interact with you if you wanna leave comments, questions, suggestions or anything like that, we are all ears.

Clay: So, thank you again to Paul. Thank to our esteemed co-host Chezz. And thank you to you as listeners, we will see you back next week.

Announcer: This has been The Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community, including the trading team, premium training, and more, visit

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